[DantesPeak]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', '
')
What does this say about the future of refining in the US? Which way will Asia go as it invests for the future? Which way will Western capital go for that matter?

[Gerben]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DantesPeak', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', '
')
What does this say about the future of refining in the US? Which way will Asia go as it invests for the future? Which way will Western capital go for that matter?

[Pablo2079]

Would it be possible to run "upgraders" with the sour crude (like they do with the Canadian Bitumen)? Seems like they would have more markets for the sweet synthetic crude that result from the upgrading, rather than having to refine the sour crude.

Just a thought, but it seems like it would be a good way to utilize existing refineries throughout the world.

[evilgenius]

There are upgraders. Ivanhoe Energy is one small example I know of just off the top of my head. Upgrading might be the way for Western capital to answer the challenge. Another thing I thought of while reading this originally was that Western capital might respond to the world oil situation with a far more intense investing phase in Asia. Since Asia is being built and does not more expensively need to be re-built capital might find that there is a better return to go all out along the same already established economic lines.

[DantesPeak]

It seems that the energy industry and government will do anything to deny that the gasoline inventories are in perilous condition at this very moment. Lack of clear explanations has made the public skeptical of the industry - even when they are telling the truth.

In this case they are mostly not telling the truth, and I'm afraid that this is going to contribute to a big blame game when gasoline shortages likely start spreading accross the USA this summer.

[shortonoil]

Drifter quoted:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ith President Bush calling for a 20 percent drop in gasoline use and the Senate now debating legislation for huge increases in ethanol production, oil companies see growing uncertainty about future gasoline demand and little need to expand refineries or build new ones.

[Blacksmith]

It's purely economics and has nothing to do with the mith of ethanol.

[Twilight]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', 'I')t looks like they, the oil companies and the Bush administration, have been caught in their own lie.

Someone is going to have a lot of explaining to do; especially, right after the pumps run dry!

[basil_hayden]

Just another product of our non-existent energy policy in this country.

The "It's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission" paradigm is about to fail miserably.

[MacG]

The Original Post really says it all.

[nth]

This is a joke.

Even if the oil companies want to build/expand their refineries, they will not be able to do it. The waiting list for many crucial parts are three years out.

We already got a new refinery permitted in Yuma, AZ and yet, no construction due to unable to secure crude oil to get banks to release the money.

Kuwait has canceled oil refinery contract bids earlier this year due to submissions were proposing costs of 15billion. Somehow Kuwait thinks the price has gone down and reissuing the proposal for companies to submit new bids.

If ethanol is really going to make that big of a dent, then why is not the oil companies diving into ethanol? Instead, they are shying away from it and preventing ethanol pumps from being installed in their gas stations.

This is just a big farce.

[UncoveringTruths]

Muddy up the waters and the sheeple won't know who to blame or believe. This just makes the issue that much harder to understand. Everyone in the industry standing in a circle pointing their finger at the next person.

[threadbear]

They may be stalling building new refineries in the US until such time as a major crisis hits, at which time, the federal govt steps in, supercedes state and local govts and streamlines the permitting process in the interests of "national security" (or some such bull)

That would save them a bundle. If they dispurse most of their profits, raising yeild rates, that encourages their stock to further skyrocket, at which time they can plead poverty and have the govt subsidize the effort, in "the interest of national security"

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '.')..streamlines the permitting process in the interests of "national security" (or some such bull

[Bioman]

Wow, I didn't realize biofuels were already having this big an impact.

A few weeks ago, the chief of OPEC said the same thing: biofuels threaten us. The IEA chief quickly said: dude, not so fast, don't worry, there's enough oil and you've made enough profits, so invest in expansion, dude.

I knew biofuels were huge, but that they were going to influence the behavior, thoughts and decisions of Big Oil is new to me.

[threadbear]

Emerson, Why would the corporatocracy not socialize the cost, by having the govt build the refineries, but privatize the profits? That's how they operate. Demand for oil isn't going to completely evaporate. There are years and years of profits to be squeezed out of govt compliance to corporate dominance

[DantesPeak]

The US government already proposed building government refineries after Hurricane Katrina, but Congress rejected that idea.

I'm not saying it was a good idea or not, but if it wasn't in the national interest then for the government to step in, how can many in Congress blame the refining industry now for not doing more? Despite much talk about not building a new refinery, refinery capacity has been steadily expanded anyway - including over the last few years.

Again, I don't like this excuse (scaling back because of ethanol)
and this kind of talk will make things worse for all concerned later on.

[pip]

I work for an unnamed US refiner, and several months ago the regional vice-president came in and presented a slide show to the entire plant work force. The presentation he showed us was about the next 5-10 year projection for supply/demand etc that had been done by the company’s planning dept. The presentation had evidently been made to all the company’s plant managers earlier.

For those calling conspiracy or dishonesty, you’re giving the oil industry way too much credit. The presentation predicted gasoline demand continuing upward into the future in a consistent manner. Ethanol production to continue to increase into the future taking a larger and larger slice of the gasoline demand. The VP expressed concern about our future competition with the ethanol industry implying margins would likely decrease.

As strange as it seems, I would not assume the refining industry knows any more about peak oil than the average joe. I certainly haven’t met anyone here who would even recognize the term.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'E')merson, Why would the corporatocracy not socialize the cost, by having the govt build the refineries, but privatize the profits? That's how they operate. Demand for oil isn't going to completely evaporate. There are years and years of profits to be squeezed out of govt compliance to corporate dominance

[TheDude]

Who ever heard of a state run oil company?

Or a company that runs the state for that matter.

Pip, you should hand out copies of Simmons's or Deffeyes's books to your colleagues.