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Burning Man!!!

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby threadbear » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 14:25:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '[') Your average American living the Dream (tm) will vote for the Devil himself if they think there's a new riding mower in it for them.


The road to hell isn't paved with good intentions, it's seeded with kentucky blue grass and irrigated with depleting aquifers. :lol:
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby TWilliam » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 14:52:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'I') agree the Warriors started it threadbear. But the issue I have with the Boomers is that they saw it, knew better (they were the hippies after all), but turned their backs on the high road and embraced and refined the selfish crass commercialism of their parents anyway.


There is a great deal to what you're saying. People change when they have kids and take on mortgages. Boomers were also gullible enough to believe the propaganda tailored specifically for idealistic minds; that they could make political and institutional changes from the INSIDE. In fact, institutional inertia changed us.

The VietNamese war ended without an armed domestic uprising; a lost opportunity. Now it's abundantly clear that American style capitalism and out of control consumerism, supported by soft fascism, can't be changed from within.


True enough on all counts. Tho' I would argue that they were not forced to take that path. Granted however that mass media (particularly television - they don't call it "programming" for nothing) by then had become extremely powerful and effective at directing the public mind, I suppose it's not all that surprising...
"It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby threadbear » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 15:21:17

They weren't forced to take that path, TW, and I'm rather appalled at acquaintances who chose that route. They're the same bunch of idiots who are watching and reading "the Secret". The same type who dropped acid at parties and wondered why the hell they were having a bad time. No appreciation for the deeper, more sacred aspects of life.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby TWilliam » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 17:49:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'T')hey weren't forced to take that path, TW, and I'm rather appalled at acquaintances who chose that route. They're the same bunch of idiots who are watching and reading "the Secret". The same type who dropped acid at parties and wondered why the hell they were having a bad time. No appreciation for the deeper, more sacred aspects of life.


Ah yes, "The Secret"; spiritual narcissism at it's finest. Only a bunch as egocentric as the Boomers could take the great spiritual truth that our consciousness is one with Divine Awareness and reduce it to "I (meaning ego self) create reality". It's too bad really, as there is in fact a great deal of useful truth in the film. Distinguishing it from the crap is apparently challenging for most however.

By the way threadbear, I'm sure you realize this but just to be clear on the matter, I don't automatically apply my judgments regarding Boomers as a whole to individuals. I'm quite aware that not all of them fit the profile we're discussing here. And yes I agree, many (if not most) have zero appreciation for the genuinely important aspects of life (tho' that certainly applies to more than just the Boomers)...
"It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby Hawkcreek » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 18:35:32

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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby TWilliam » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 23:50:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'N')aa, if you really felt that way it would have been apparent in some of your earlier posts. Maybe saying "some" Boomers, etc.
You are just one of the haters that Rush Linbaugh loves. And one that loves having someone to hate.


:lol: ok...

You're welcome to believe that if you wish...
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby threadbear » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 01:11:11

I've gotta say, TW, I find a lot of boomers really interesting, at least the ones who are still protesting, politically aware and cultivated human beings. But I hear what you're saying. I don't hang out with people like you describe, but I know they exist.

The people I find astounding are the Gen Xer's. The hip irony, obtuse out of nowhere comments, the "whatever" attitude, the apolitical cynicism, but more than anything, the flat out boring, lack of affect thing. Weird. Oh-- and the obligatory atheism that goes with the cynicism. Sad.

I relate better to people under 30, the weirdo types who still give a damn.

This is completely general too.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby TWilliam » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 02:07:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')'ve gotta say, TW, I find a lot of boomers really interesting, at least the ones who are still protesting, politically aware and cultivated human beings.


I expect such individuals are interesting regardless of their age.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he people I find astounding are the Gen Xer's. The hip irony,


Just off the top of my head, I'd say that would be a product of witnessing their parents' blatant hypocrisy.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'o')btuse out of nowhere comments,


Maybe being raised by the "sound bite sitter" (TV) has something to do with that.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')he "whatever" attitude,


Too many choices maybe? Or at least the appearance of such?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')he apolitical cynicism, but more than anything, the flat out boring, lack of affect thing.

Combination of the former maybe. Too much parental excess along with a media culture to encourage it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')h-- and the obligatory atheism that goes with the cynicism. Sad.

Hmm... now that depends on how you define atheism. Just because someone might not believe in the God of the clergy, that doesn't necessarily make them an atheist. Nor does it somehow make them cause for pity.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') relate better to people under 30, the weirdo types who still give a damn.

Would that be the grandkids? Yea, a lot of them are cool peeps... 8)
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby threadbear » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 02:31:42

My God, I'm barely old enough to be a grandparent of infants! Yikes. Perhaps I should have used nihilism instead of atheism. Passion for anything better than nothing at all. And thanks for explaining the GenX thing. I thought it was just some trendy thing, but it's in response to parent's narcissism. Interesting to know where it comes from. I don't have kids, so am right out of that loop.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby smallpoxgirl » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 02:36:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', ' ')the apolitical cynicism


These are people that were immersed from the time they were old enough to talk in a constant stream of manipulative marketing BS. All the things that they were given to believe in were in the end clever marketing schemes. Eventually you decide that anyone who wants you to believe in something is just trying to con you into buying something.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby Hawkcreek » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 10:17:06

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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby TheDude » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 17:53:12

These grotesque generalizations don't really count for much. Does Alex Jones seem like a typical Gen Xer? He's only 33.

Any written accounts of people agonizing over the mistaken direction America was headed in with building suburbia? I bet there are a few but the status quo certainly prevailed - anybody raising the specter of eventual limits on fuel would seem genuinely out of their mind - people laughed at the idea of US oil production right up to the day the lines started forming at gas stations. Holding a generation accountable is pretty ridiculous. I'm sure your average boomer figured we'd just switch to a different fuel by now - still do.

Anybody wonder about how the hippie dream really began to keel over right around the time oil production peaked? It's a Peak in Grooviness, Baby!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'T')he people I find astounding are the Gen Xer's. The hip irony, obtuse out of nowhere comments, the "whatever" attitude, the apolitical cynicism, but more than anything, the flat out boring, lack of affect thing. Weird. Oh-- and the obligatory atheism that goes with the cynicism. Sad.


Popcorn! Described me to a T.

You try being a little kid in the 70s, a world full of primary colors, cereal companies bragging about how much sugar they put in, sountrack of disco and Steve Miller and CB songs - then go through puberty in the Reagan 80s. You'd be an affectless apolitical cynic too, dude.

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Burning Man? Wicker Man!
Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby TWilliam » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 19:38:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'M')y God, I'm barely old enough to be a grandparent of infants! Yikes. Perhaps I should have used nihilism instead of atheism. Passion for anything better than nothing at all. And thanks for explaining the GenX thing. I thought it was just some trendy thing, but it's in response to parent's narcissism. Interesting to know where it comes from. I don't have kids, so am right out of that loop.


I wasn't necessarily implying they were your grandkids TB, just that they're the Boomer grandkids... :lol:

And yea, nihilism might have been a better choice of terms.

As for my "explanation", as I implied those are just guesses based on my personal observation, and I'm sure there are many other factors as well, but I'd wager that the ones I mentioned are some of the more fundamental ones.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'O')f course, the boomers came upon their life choices, attitudes, and decisions out of the blue. Their parents had nothing to do with it.


Oh give me a break already. Are you that dense that you would think we're not aware of the fact that the Boomer mindset is a product of their upbringing as well? The problem with the Boomer generation is that never before in human history has an entire culture of narcissism been possible, because it would not survive. Only as a result of the rise of industrial technology and it's concomitant reduction in the survival need of close interpersonal interaction has an entire "me first" generation (well 3 going on 4 of them now) been able to survive to become a political force. Historically, overt adult selfishness generally lead to an early death.
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby Hawkcreek » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 21:28:06

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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby threadbear » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 22:04:42

God, Can't we just agree that everybody sucks? Can't we all just get along? :lol:
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby Hawkcreek » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 22:07:53

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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby TWilliam » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 22:41:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'Y')ou are still saying "The problem with the Boomer generation--", and then continue, saying that it is only one of 3 or 4 generations that have culminated in those problems.
So which is it? Did we do it all by our little bitty selves, or are you willing to admit that boomers are no more responsible for todays problems than any other?


Apparently you missed the point that it's the fact that they are the political majority that makes their selfishness problematic. And seeing as how they are the example for the following generations (which are the 3 to which I referred), yes, they are responsible.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') like your technique of throwing in an insult at the very beginning of your response. Makes it easier to judge the quality of the rest of it.


Hey, at least I put it out there rather than veiling it behind a thin veneer of sarcasm (as in your prior post). And anyway, if the shoe fits... :wink:
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby TWilliam » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 22:43:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'G')od, Can't we just agree that everybody sucks?


Yea, but not everyone swallows... :lol: :lol:
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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby Hawkcreek » Sun 17 Jun 2007, 11:07:19

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Re: Burning Man!!!

Postby TWilliam » Sun 17 Jun 2007, 16:26:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'I') missed that point because it is not one you made until now.


Alright well... I admit I didn't make it explicitly, but I thought it was implied clearly enough. Sorry.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd again, it is probable that they were also following the example of the generations before them.


I don't really have an explanation for why, but somehow it doesn't really seem like it to me. Altho' I'm an early Xer, I was a late child for parents from the Warrior generation, and my experience of them and their peers in general was that they were very generous and self-sacrificing, in sharp contrast to my three Boomer siblings who have always struck me as being first and foremost concerned only with their own agendas. With the exception of the oldest (a sister who was a semi-hippie), we're worlds apart in our perspectives and depth of thinking, and even she was still largely self-centered.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') do not understand how you can say that being a political majority makes them more responsible than those that came before them, or those that will come after them.


The problem I see with them being the political majority is twofold. First, their excessive self-interest means their political choices generally work against the larger collective good, and on the whole they continue to make those choices even in the face of the evidence that those choices threaten our very survival as a species.

Second, because they are the political majority, and because they shall remain so well beyond the time that they should be, those of us that see the train wreck up ahead and would like to make some meaningful changes are unable to do so because the Boomers will continue to vote us down, until it is far too late for any significant remediation.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')t some point ALL of those generations have been ,or will be, a political majority.


Not until the majority of Boomers are dead, which again, will likely be far too late to significantly address the damage done.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') don't know of any generation in the past that did not exhibit selfishness. Selfishness in a world of declining resources is probably a great survival selector.

I disagree. The selfish individual will decidedly not prevail against a cooperative collective. I don't care how much ammo you've got stockpiled, you can only fire in so many directions at once.

Now enlightened self-interest is another matter entirely; it recognizes the personal value in sublimating a certain degree of pure selfishness to the needs of a larger whole. Something the Boomers in general appear to lack.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') see a great deal of it in most of the young people I work with. Did it start with the boomers -- no, I don't think so.

Start with? Of course not. Selfishness is unfortunately one potential expression of human personality. It can however be encouraged or discouraged as a character trait, and consciously or otherwise, it was encouraged in the Boomers to an unprecedented degree, and they have likewise further augmented it in their progeny.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ill it end once your generation is the political majority?

I doubt we'll survive the aftermath of the Boomers to ever become one.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')re you sure you aren't letting your personal relationships with the boomers closest to you influence your thinking?

How could it not, Hawkcreek? If they generally exhibit the traits assigned to them by their critics, how could I not consider that as evidence that said criticism is warranted?
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