[Guest]

So I found out about the Peak Oil idea about a year ago. I have been reading up on it ever since and have come to pretty much respect what you guys are saying.

I have to admit though, I have not really changed my habits and continue to live my life how I always have. (I feel its better to enjoy this time than let it be wasted worrying) I guess its just the things I see around me that keep me from truly believing this. Most noteably, what Im seeing going on amongst different countries. For example, why the heck is China supporting the culmination of the automobile? If Peak Oil is as clear cut as everyone here is saying, wouldn't china at least consider the implications and not make massive plans for highways and different automobile factories?

Also, I would imagine the United States would be acting different as well.

Why arent they taxing the heck out of anything that gets less than twenty miles to the gallon, or cracking down on SUV's. I know people will answer with "Well the people would never go for that". I call BS because I would like to think if a country was heading for inevitable Oil Doom that changes would be inacted dispite what the ignorant populace wants. I mean, thats the point of a government, to lead the people to the best future. Heck, its not like they couldnt smokescreen their intentions. For example, a law could be passed that puts a 15000 dollar tax on SUVs. The government could say that it was for the enviroment, while in reality it would be to address the need for a change in what people purchase for transportation, thus helping prepare for a lack of oil scenario.

Are you guys seeing why I have my doubts? If we are headed for doom, I feel the governments would realize that and take whatever precautions they need to avoid it. I know people here think the government wouldnt act in order to protect our financials and from inciting panic, but what good would that do for them? The panic would only hit later and much harder than if they would try to enact measures now. They want to avoid disaster as much as we peak oilers do. So why if they have to power to change and help stop this supposed upcoming doomsday, are they not? Maybe because the problem isnt as near as what many here think.

Trust me, Ive been reading posts here and gathering info for a while. While I have come to respect you guys I have also noticed a sobering trend. You guys are quick to embrace some news articles that says something negative about the oil market. Its quickly linked to an upcoming peak. No one ever seems to want to question if their are other reasons for the said situation. Yet when I see anything positive about our oil situation, man are some people (not all) quick to dismiss it. Its like you guys are heralding the arrival of this sad event, as if its gonna prove how you knew more than the average joe and dont want to listen to the other side.

There are people here (although rare) that do seem to see both sides. Im not certain but the poster John Denver seems to be an example. Again I put a lot of thoughts in to one post, but its been on my mind since Ive discovered this site.

Please dont flame me, I just merely posted to represent a point of view held by more than one anonymous lurker on these boards. If anyone wants to respond feel free...if not, sorry for my rant.

Cliff notes : I have doubts about the end being near...namely the seeming ideas that the posters here are more aware than the governments the run our world are when it comes to our energy situation. Also I question the one-sided view held by many here.

[Ayoob_Reloaded]

If you're looking for level-headed analysis of the problem, you'll find some of that here. A good chunk of the time, one poster or another is either drunk or depressed, and is venting. I've gone on incoherent tirades for one reason or another, and I know a bunch of others who have. This is scary stuff to deal with, and it doesn't make for calm and sober reflection.

Even though I'm aware of all this stuff, I'm going out drinking with the boys tonight rather than staying home and doing pushups and reading Survival of the Fittest Magazine. Obviously, if I really believe that the End Is Near, I shouldn't be doing that. I guess it's inconsistent.

Our Dear Leader most certainly knows what's coming. He is personally insulated from the downside of the peak, as are most of the very wealthy. That's why they're not as worried as I am.

[bruin]

I agree that I don't see a "1929 Black Monday" single day event with Peak Oil, kicking off a great depression. What I do see is a gradual increase in oil prices over the next 10-20 years. There is a lot of energy waste that will balance out oil demand as the prices rise. Many people will give up half their energy uses in the USA and still be ok.

But as the price keeps inching up, our society will change. The 1970's provides a good picture of what is coming. High inflation and high interest rates. What is troubling with Peak Oil, there is no relief around the corner with more cheap oil only much more expensive oil. The USA will become efficiency nuts in order to keep their lifestyles.

[Guest]

Most of our leaders are invested in oil and weapons companies. The Bushes are invested in the Carylye group and recieve massive campaign contributions from Lockhead Martin. Tom Ridge is heavily invested in Raytheon. I could go on and on and on, but you get the point.

The government seems to have come up with a plan - go to war to get oil.

Not surprisingly, since most of our leaders are invested in companies that will profit from war and/or high oil prices, they will personally proft from the coming disaster.

Look how well IBM and Ford did during World War II supplying weapons and technology to both sides of the conflict and you will have your questions answered.

Guest

[Guest]

[quote="bruin"]I agree that I don't see a "1929 Black Monday" single day event with Peak Oil, kicking off a great depression. What I do see is a gradual increase in oil prices over the next 10-20 years. quote]

Care to explain how the price went up about 50 percent in the last year? If that's what you call gradual, I want you to watch this video of a tsunami. Don't worry - it's a gradual one.

Guest

[Guest]

[quote="Anonymous"]So I found out about the Peak Oil idea about a year ago. I have been reading up on it ever since and have come to pretty quote]

Your'e assuming the government is benevolent. If that was the case, they would have provided our troops with body armour at some point in the last two years.

If the government cares so little about the troops who are fighting for the oil that they won't even get them body armour, what makes you think they care about your behind, especially when they stand to personally profit from your demise?

Guest

[skateari]

I once believed we had 10-15, I once believed we had to have this ammount of time because otherwise there would be things going on to prevent it. I once thought our government would do whats best for the people, I once thought our great society would embrace change years in advance in order to deal with this problem. I once had faith that we could change things in those 15 years and avoid the problem all together. However, over the years, as I have gathered more information, read more books, studied our government, our current adminstration, economics, and war, my viewpoint has changed dramaticly.

There is a lot of scientific proof, yes - proof, that global world oil production will reach a peak BEFORE 2007. There is absolutly NO more spare compacity. There are no new oil finds. There is no way we can keep increasing production for more then two to three years at max. This is by current events that show the last oil producer that can increase production, can no longer do so. This signifies a massive event, where the world can no longer increase production. This is a true sign that "Peak Oil", will happen much sooner then once thought.

It seems to me that the more information you collect on this subject, the longer you research, the more knowledge that you uncover, the more pessimistic and dire this situation becomes. You will loose faith in your government, you will soon realise that your government will puruse their own short term agenda's instead of doing whats right for the country.

In an early part of my Peak Oil 'knowledge' search, I felt just the same way as you. How could such a problem go unheard of to 'normal' people, if it wasn't such a distant problem? Why is our government doing nothing other then showing their need for more cheap oil? Why would our government be so STUPID to ignore the problem like its not there?

Those are the questions you will first be asking, but the awnser comes down to it, in a perfect world you would not need to ask those questions. But the world we are living in now is far from the perfect world. The people running our lives, our money, power and future are far from perfect people. Money runs our government, money creates power, power in turn brings greed.

The more you understand this problem, and how soon it will come, the more you will see how desprite this situation has become. The more you learn about our economy, the more you learn about our oil-dependency, the more you learn about government corruption, the more you learn about the facts and numbers behind oil production, the more pessimistic this problem will be. Because this problem is truely a negitive one, a very much unheard one, and one that will come very shortly. We are not all crazy here, some of us are just scared about what lies ahead. Its hard not to be

[johnmarkos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '
')Are you guys seeing why I have my doubts? If we are headed for doom, I feel the governments would realize that and take whatever precautions they need to avoid it. I know people here think the government wouldnt act in order to protect our financials and from inciting panic, but what good would that do for them? The panic would only hit later and much harder than if they would try to enact measures now. They want to avoid disaster as much as we peak oilers do. So why if they have to power to change and help stop this supposed upcoming doomsday, are they not? Maybe because the problem isnt as near as what many here think.

[Woodchuck]

Welcome Guest.

I also have some doubts. My doubts are more about life after post peak, not about peak itself.

To paraphrase your idea if I may:

"Yes, why doesn't Uncle Sam get on the ball if this thing is as bad as everyone is saying?"

The answer, in my mind, is because that's not what Governments do.
Governments follow public opinion, they do not lead it. And if Social Security reform is the appetizer, then peak oil is the meat and potatoes. The public doesn't do bad news.

In other words. Expect Rome to burn, and expect Nero to fiddle. Same as it ever was.

[Guest]

Thank you guys for the warm reception to my somewhat critical post. I see what you guys are saying now, about the government being out for themselves. From the posts Ive read, it seems the Government will profit from this strategy. The only flaw in that to me is the fact that money will mean nothing in a oil-limited world. So what if the Bush's make millions. Thats probably not going to help when the trade deficit skyrockets and the world's finances shoot into tailspin. I know the general consensus here is that the government is corrupt, I can accept that....Im not totally in the dark. What I cant accept is that no one has raised any alarm bells, be it on purpose or by accident. The most we have is from the very people we follow like Simmons and the like. Also our sources seem to be mostly from axis of logic, from the wilderness...etc. Not that these are bad sources by any means, but they arent what you would call "main stream". In a nutshell, while I am buying into this and believe what is going on, I still have a glimmer of hope that it isnt gonna be all that bad. Im trying to think of some sort of future. If "shtf" though I know exactly what Ill be doing. Ill be getting a case load of beer, stealing a porsche and looking for beautiful desperate women. Heh...maybe it wont be so bad after all!

In all seriousness, thank you for the awesome responses. Ill be registering shortly

Oh yeah for my introduction

Me: Hi my name is Matt and Im a Peak Oil believer
PO GROUP: HI MATT!!
Me: Waves and sits down

Hehe...like a peak oilers anonymous...

[Woodchuck]

I consider Social Security/Entitlement Reform a big problem, but not as big as peak oil.

One of the most powerful men in the world wanted to get the ball rolling on Social Security reform in the early 1990s. This was Pete Peterson. At that time, he was the CEO of the Blackstone Group. (This is a powerful private investment bank on par with the Carlyle Group). He was also the chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations. (Any conspiracy guy knows all about that one). He was also former CEO of other multinationals and in and out of Government over 30 years. I don't think there was a more blue chip, insider, power elite, on the planet. He formed the Concord Coalition, which was supposed to get the job done ten years ago, when it would have been much cheaper.

He got nowhere. Nada. Zippo. They are STILL talking entitlement reform in DC. And the reason they are still talking reform, is because everybody KNOWS the public doesn't want their benefits cut.

Now if he can't get anywhere in Washington, how can we possibly expect Simmons, Lee Raymond (Exxon), Savinar, etc. to even get their foot in the door?

[PenultimateManStanding]

This is my take on it too: INERTIA. Nobody wants to change anything even if change is required. I remember reading how Memphis, Tenn knew (in 1878) that yellow fever was coming up from New Orleans- They just waited around until it got there and it pretty much wiped the town out (5000 dead). The lost their city charter and didn't become a city again for 15 years. There are influential people trying to get the word out but what they say falls mainly on deaf ears.

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')lso our sources seem to be mostly from axis of logic, from the wilderness...etc.

[Pops]

Remember, the only oil about gone is the cheap stuff, there is still lots of money to be made.

I don’t know about China’s roads but I did read they may be looking to buy Unocal, and they have deals I think to develop Canada’s sands, along with projects in Iran and even Russia I believe.

I don’t believe everyone in government is corrupt, I do believe most in government know the average US citizen wants “reality tvâ€

[Woodchuck]

Good one Pops.

At least somebody is thinking on the DoD energy side of the house.

But I like what you said about money to be made. What I would like to see is some of these Gen X/Slackers stepping up to the plate and taking some good swings.

I think this property is a steal. Nobody knows what to do with it. This thing probably has roof problems, and that's what scares everybody. But it could be made into a low grade hot house, and it could produce about 1,100 gallons of bio-diesel per year. This is using Palm Oil. We are talking Zone 5 here, and that's where it starts to get pretty cold. The bio-diesel production could probably fuel the Police and Fire of a small rural town on a sustainable basis. And that goes a long way towards post peak stability.

This is music to Harrisburg's and Uncle Sam's ears. We are talking Jobs, Local economic activity, Green migration, etc. Grant money and pilot funding from State/Federal? I'd say at least $2-4 million, easy. Sheesh, I can see Gov. Rendell hula dancing with the local high school kids at the ribbon cutting.

I'm in my mid 50s with a bad back. If I was in my 30's or 40's, I'd have it made. This is still America as far as I know.

http://www.susqco.com/subsites/ecodev/properties/08.htm

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Woodchuck', '
') What I would like to see is some of these Gen X/Slackers stepping up to the plate and taking some good swings.

But it could be made into a low grade hot house, and it could produce about 1,100 gallons of bio-diesel per year.