Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

From CNN:Why no one's making more gas

A forum to either submit your own review of a book, video or audio interview, or to post reviews by others.

From CNN:Why no one's making more gas

Unread postby Madpaddy » Wed 06 Jun 2007, 05:31:20

CNN
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')efineries are making money like never before, so why aren't more people getting in on the action?

Hey, there are 1,000 people on this site alone could answer this question. There is not one mention of declining availability of oil mentioned anywhere in the article. Oh well...
User avatar
Madpaddy
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri 25 Jun 2004, 03:00:00

Re: From CNN:Why no one's making more gas

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 06 Jun 2007, 06:46:34

Hey you are talking about CNN, the quintissential MSM source not tied to broadcast media, what did you expect?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17094
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: From CNN:Why no one's making more gas

Unread postby Madpaddy » Wed 06 Jun 2007, 06:55:59

I suppose I expected them to not draw attention to the matter in the first place.
User avatar
Madpaddy
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri 25 Jun 2004, 03:00:00

Re: From CNN:Why no one's making more gas

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 06 Jun 2007, 07:04:42

How are they drawing attention, I take this as trying to sooth the masses with the same old crud. Everyone has been hearing for weeks how their are refinery problems as the cause of the high price of gasoline.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17094
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: From CNN:Why no one's making more gas

Unread postby pip » Wed 06 Jun 2007, 10:02:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', ' ') CNN
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')efineries are making money like never before, so why aren't more people getting in on the action?

Hey, there are 1,000 people on this site alone could answer this question. There is not one mention of declining availability of oil mentioned anywhere in the article. Oh well...

You imply the refiners are not building refineries due to an insider knowledge of peak oil. I work in engineering for a big US oil refiner. I have never come across anyone, even at high levels of strategic planning, that has any worry about future oil supplies. In my opinion, big oil is going to as surprised by peak oil as everybody else.

The media focuses too much on "no new refineries". There are still a lot of expansions being done. There's no reason to build new when you can expand existing plants, use the existing utilities and other infrastructure. The projections I've seen is that over the next 5-10 years, refining capacity will be increasing faster than demand.
The road goes on forever and the party never ends - REK
User avatar
pip
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed 21 Apr 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Republic of Texas
Top

Re: From CNN:Why no one's making more gas

Unread postby AZpeaker » Wed 06 Jun 2007, 13:16:50

Hey pip, Since you work with the refiners can you answer a question for me. What is the real difference to refiners between light sweet and heavy sour crude with respect to current refinery capacity? I am currently of the understanding that most refining infrastructure is geared for light sweet and will need substantial retrofitting to handle heavy sour crude.

Thanks for any enlightenment.
User avatar
AZpeaker
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu 02 Feb 2006, 04:00:00
Location: Arizona

Re: From CNN:Why no one's making more gas

Unread postby KevO » Wed 06 Jun 2007, 14:17:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', '[')url=http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/05/news/economy/refining_investments/index.htm?postversion=2007060517]CNN[/url] Hey, there are 1,000 people on this site alone could answer this question.

No there are 8 people who post a lot :-D
KevO
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2775
Joined: Tue 24 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: CT USA
Top

Re: From CNN:Why no one's making more gas

Unread postby pip » Wed 06 Jun 2007, 14:54:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AZpeaker', 'H')ey pip, Since you work with the refiners can you answer a question for me. What is the real difference to refiners between light sweet and heavy sour crude with respect to current refinery capacity? I am currently of the understanding that most refining infrastructure is geared for light sweet and will need substantial retrofitting to handle heavy sour crude.

Thanks for any enlightenment.


To convert from sweet to sour, I’d say there are 3 main requirements.

1. Upgrade metallurgy in primary distillation unit. The sulfur in the crude oil is corrosive to regular steel above 500F or so. The higher percentage of sulfur the more corrosive. The refinery must use alloys containing various percentages of chrome to maintain a decent service life. Several piping circuits and vessels would likely need to be replaced with higher chrome when going to sour crude.
2. More sulfur plant capacity. You put more sulfur in with a sour crude, you have to take more sulfur out. The refinery’s sulfur plant capacity may need to be increased.
3. Bottoms upgrading. Heavier crude has more bottoms, ie gas oil, asphalt, and less diesel, jet fuel, and gasoline. The upgrading capacity of a light crude refinery may need to be increased. Bigger cat cracker or hydrocracker, maybe a new coker. This stuff is big bucks. I bet a big coker would approach a billion dollars right now.
The road goes on forever and the party never ends - REK
User avatar
pip
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed 21 Apr 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Republic of Texas
Top

Re: From CNN:Why no one's making more gas

Unread postby strider3700 » Wed 06 Jun 2007, 15:38:04

is that billion a typo? $1,000,000,000 for a part of a refinery? No wonder they aren't building new ones.
shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
strider3700
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2865
Joined: Sun 17 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Vancouver Island

Re: From CNN:Why no one's making more gas

Unread postby AZpeaker » Wed 06 Jun 2007, 16:18:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pip', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AZpeaker', 'H')ey pip, Since you work with the refiners can you answer a question for me. What is the real difference to refiners between light sweet and heavy sour crude with respect to current refinery capacity? I am currently of the understanding that most refining infrastructure is geared for light sweet and will need substantial retrofitting to handle heavy sour crude.

Thanks for any enlightenment.


To convert from sweet to sour, I’d say there are 3 main requirements.

1. Upgrade metallurgy in primary distillation unit. The sulfur in the crude oil is corrosive to regular steel above 500F or so. The higher percentage of sulfur the more corrosive. The refinery must use alloys containing various percentages of chrome to maintain a decent service life. Several piping circuits and vessels would likely need to be replaced with higher chrome when going to sour crude.
2. More sulfur plant capacity. You put more sulfur in with a sour crude, you have to take more sulfur out. The refinery’s sulfur plant capacity may need to be increased.
3. Bottoms upgrading. Heavier crude has more bottoms, ie gas oil, asphalt, and less diesel, jet fuel, and gasoline. The upgrading capacity of a light crude refinery may need to be increased. Bigger cat cracker or hydrocracker, maybe a new coker. This stuff is big bucks. I bet a big coker would approach a billion dollars right now.


Thanks so much for the info. That really puts it into perspective.
User avatar
AZpeaker
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu 02 Feb 2006, 04:00:00
Location: Arizona
Top

Re: From CNN:Why no one's making more gas

Unread postby Madpaddy » Wed 06 Jun 2007, 16:23:21

Oh the irony,

With heavy crude we get all the ingredients to make more roads but less of the fuel to put in the cars to drive on them.

I like that...
User avatar
Madpaddy
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri 25 Jun 2004, 03:00:00

Re: From CNN:Why no one's making more gas

Unread postby cube » Wed 06 Jun 2007, 16:49:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', '[')url=http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/05/news/economy/refining_investments/index.htm?postversion=2007060517]CNN[/url] Hey, there are 1,000 people on this site alone could answer this question.
No there are 8 people who post a lot :-D
I think you've just accurately described 90% of ALL message boards on the internet.
getting off topic here's the largest forum in the world GaiaOnLine
stats ---> Record Users Online: 86,738!!!

Don't worry PO will drop those numbers down. :P
cube
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3909
Joined: Sat 12 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top


Return to Book/Media Reviews

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests