[MonteQuest]

[edited by Tyler_JC] An off topic discusssion about the cost of cheeseburgers and whether or not life was improving in the world started in another thread.

It started with:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'F')or some strange reason, everyone on this site assumes that if gasoline doubles in the price, the cost of every single good or service will double as well. Well, the cost of gasoline has tripled since 1999 and a cheeseburger at McDonald's is still a buck...

[PolestaR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'F')or some strange reason, everyone on this site assumes that if gasoline doubles in the price, the cost of every single good or service will double as well. Well, the cost of gasoline has tripled since 1999 and a cheeseburger at McDonald's is still a buck...

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PolestaR', '
')
Well actually the price of the cheeseburger (and many other Maccie D burgers) has increased in many places in the world. And according to some stats I just researched the price of the BigMac has increased 29% since 2002 compared to 2007 in the USA. If I wanted to eat a cheeseburger today I would be paying about twice as much as I was back in 99 and about 8 times as much as I was paying in 89, not sure about where you're from but I suggest the price has increased a considerable amount.

[PolestaR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', 'I') do not want to mess with your Big Mac index fantasies, but according to a paper from Princeton the price of the Big Mac in the US during the 1998 fiscal year was 2.43$ , while in 2000 it was 2.51$ (see tables 1 and 2 of http://economics.uchicago.edu/download/bigmac.pdf )

It was 3.06$ in 2005 and I guess it must be 3.22$ today. There is no way you could be eating twice as much in 1999 compared to now, unless you flanked elementary school

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PolestaR', 'I')n case you are ignorant, the BIGMAC and CHEESEBURGER are two different McDonalds burgers. Don't you have some kind of perpetual motion energy device to be talking about EnergySpin?

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PolestaR', 'I')n case you are ignorant, the BIGMAC and CHEESEBURGER are two different McDonalds burgers. Don't you have some kind of perpetual motion energy device to be talking about EnergySpin?

[crapattack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Starvid wrote:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Nope. We build more power lines. Creates lots of jobs and growth, by the way.

[Tyler_JC]

The world's poor aren't significantly worse off than Europeans were in the 18th century. In fact, I think they are significantly better off.

British children who didn't live past age 5 in the 1730-1740 time period: 72%

British children who didn't live past age 5 in the 1810-1830 time period: 32%

Children in Senegal (African nation with a GDP per capita of only $850) who die before age 5: 13.7%

Iraqi children who don't survive past age 5 today: 12.5%

Brazilian children who don't survive past age 5 today: 3.5%

Child mortality statistics

Now can we go back to talking about Uranium Supply?

If not, I'll have to split this off into a new thread.

[crapattack]

Ok, must make one reply though before you split off.

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Facts.asp

Well worth a peak. A look at 2 highlights:

1. $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')n analysis of long-term trends shows the distance between the richest and poorest countries was about:

* 3 to 1 in 1820
* 11 to 1 in 1913
* 35 to 1 in 1950
* 44 to 1 in 1973
* 72 to 1 in 1992

Source: Human Development Report 1999

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'T')he world's poor aren't significantly worse off than Europeans were in the 18th century. In fact, I think they are significantly better off.

British children who didn't live past age 5 in the 1730-1740 time period: 72%

British children who didn't live past age 5 in the 1810-1830 time period: 32%

Children in Senegal (African nation with a GDP per capita of only $850) who die before age 5: 13.7%

Iraqi children who don't survive past age 5 today: 12.5%

Brazilian children who don't survive past age 5 today: 3.5%

[PraiseDoom]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')
We killed off our predators.

[crapattack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ccording to UNICEF, 30,000 children die each day due to poverty. And they “die quietly in some of the poorest villages on earth, far removed from the scrutiny and the conscience of the world. Being meek and weak in life makes these dying multitudes even more invisible in death.

That is about 210,000 children each week, or just under 11 million children under five years of age, each year. http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Facts.asp

[Starvid]

Things are better in the rich world today than they have ever been before. This is not very unexpected, nor that important. Things were good here 30 years ago too.

The important thing, what I really meant, is that a vast number of people are reaching out and getting something like an adequate standard of living. Hundreds and hundreds of millions, even billions, lift themselves out of total and abject poverty into some kind of global middle class while hundreds of millions leave the global middle class and join us (15-20 % the total human population) who are the global upper class. Those of us who own stuff like refrigerators and vacuum cleaners.

The price to pay... Humans affect their environment. Everyone does. The price you gotta pay is either living with that or paying for cleaning it up again. Some people, like the Americans, just don't seem to care about that. We do. We pay. With the exception of climate gas emissions that we really can't do that much about as we have already done most of what can be done, even if the left and greens fight so very hard to increase our emission again.

But still, if all developed countries emitted as little CO2 per capita as we do, pretty much no one would worry as much about climate change as they do now. And with hydrocarbons running out and coal being questioned... Who knows if we can ruin the climate even if we tried?

By the way, I am tired of your fascist wars. I detest them and would very much like if you stopped assaulting other countries and murdering innocent people.

Or hey, you're Canadian? Did you guys go to Iraq or not?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'T')he important thing, what I really meant, is that a vast number of people are reaching out and getting something like an adequate standard of living. Hundreds and hundreds of millions, even billions, lift themselves out of total and abject poverty into some kind of global middle class while hundreds of millions leave the global middle class and join us (15-20 % the total human population) who are the global upper class. Those of us who own stuff like refrigerators and vacuum cleaners.

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'T')he important thing, what I really meant, is that a vast number of people are reaching out and getting something like an adequate standard of living. Hundreds and hundreds of millions, even billions, lift themselves out of total and abject poverty into some kind of global middle class while hundreds of millions leave the global middle class and join us (15-20 % the total human population) who are the global upper class. Those of us who own stuff like refrigerators and vacuum cleaners.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', ' ')Now the question is, can the planet take 6, 7 or 8 billion people living at an adequate standard of living, not to mention the standards 15-20 % of us (that's you and me) live at?

Frankly, I don't know, and I don't think anyone does. But we're going to find out. And there is no reason to fret about this, as it is inevitable anyway.

[PraiseDoom]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'T')he important thing, what I really meant, is that a vast number of people are reaching out and getting something like an adequate standard of living. Hundreds and hundreds of millions, even billions, lift themselves out of total and abject poverty into some kind of global middle class while hundreds of millions leave the global middle class and join us (15-20 % the total human population) who are the global upper class. Those of us who own stuff like refrigerators and vacuum cleaners.

[I_Like_Plants]

Crapattack, nice to meet you - what a great poster!

Getting back to hamburgers, I was in Sacramento, and stopped in at a Carl's Jr. - I hadn't been in one of those in years. So, they had all these "Value Meals" that were something like $7, and all I wanted was a jalapeno burger. And a cup of water - it was a hot day and water sounded better than anything. So, I had that and it was like $3, it was huge, it was a very good meal. But that is not what most people are buying when they go in there, they sort of point and grunt, at the largest pictures on the menual which are .... the "value meals".

Now I can't even fault 'em that badly for that, since most Americans get a 1/2-hour lunch hour, and maybe 10 minutes if they're lucky to actually eat. When you're in a crowd of hungry people with literally seconds to decide and order, point and grunt at the biggest picture gets you fed.

So it's not the slob with the bleary eyes from working from 6AM on with no food pointing and grunting, it's the way we do things, cogs in the machine, where point and grunt at the biggest picture might be the only "individual" act you're allowed to do all day, that is the problem.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'W')ith the exception of climate gas emissions that we really can't do that much about as we have already done most of what can be done, even if the left and greens fight so very hard to increase our emission again.

But still, if all developed countries emitted as little CO2 per capita as we do, pretty much no one would worry as much about climate change as they do now.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')akey wakey sleepy heads. All that the industrial revolution did was increase population pressure by reducing infant mortality. This does not make a "better world" and has surely excellerated our race to the cliff's edge. More than twice the entire population of England in the 1730's, entirely comprised of children, dies every year in Starvid's modern "better" world.