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US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby Chaparral » Mon 21 May 2007, 03:57:40

To add some more: my GF states that business is way down at the animal hospital where she works. People are taking shorter, more local vacations which translates into shorter times for board and care facilities. I'm getting tons of spam from dive resorts that haven't bothered me in ages and the pre '82 copper pennies keep finding their way out of piggybanks into the restaurants where I get them as change. I've also noticed that it's easier to get reservations at the nice restaurants in DTLA than it used to be.
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Mon 21 May 2007, 04:01:28

Thems pennies are good for makin motors with!
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby Jack » Mon 21 May 2007, 04:17:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'A')s I said, those with tremendous talent can get into college and graduate without 100k in student loan debt.


I wonder what the statistics are. How likely is the scenario you describe? One chance in 5? One in 25? One in a thousand?

At some point, the practical effect for society ceases to be significant.
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby SevenTen » Mon 21 May 2007, 04:18:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('128shot', 'U')nless you completely suck ass and aren't willing to lie, you can make it up the ladder that is life.

I think what you meant to say was that if:
* you don't completely suck ass
* you are willing to lie

Then you can make it up the ladder.

Capitalism doesn't reward honesty, it rewards growth. Growth always involves taking something from somewhere else.
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby Chaparral » Mon 21 May 2007, 04:46:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', 'T')hems pennies are good for makin motors with!


Oh they most assuredly are! Pennies and nickels are all going into my strategic metals reserve. Next purchase will be a crucible and one of those parabolic dishes that can focus enough sunlight to melt aluminum. Imagine if we could do some small scale metallurgy without so much as cutting down a single tree for the charcoal!
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby Chaparral » Mon 21 May 2007, 05:11:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('purcatty', 'S')tainless steel will be worth a lot, if you can even find scrap stainless, collect it.


Oh I've been hoarding stainless for a long time, even before i found out about PO. There are many different kinds and it is just so useful for marine applications and scubadiving apps like underwater camera trays and strobe arms. It's tough to machine on my little itty bitty lathe tho.
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Mon 21 May 2007, 05:30:46

Man, I bet you have most or all of the equipment needed to make your own motors and generators.

Do you have the necessary tools to mold composites?

That would be awesome to make small wind turbine systems and sell them.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby mlit » Mon 21 May 2007, 13:52:56

This weekend I completed moving to my new job about 500 miles from my last.

The previous city a State Capitol with a population of about 130,000. Plenty of torn up city lots with pretty signs announcing the site was an urban redevelopment site and something someday would be built there. I was there 2 years and nothing got built. Lots of empty already built buildings, why pay to build a new one when the leases are cheaper elsewhere.

When something new does come to town the community celebrates the minimum wage jobs the new coffee or tourist junk store. Or better yet large tax breaks to bring in a wal-mart or home depot to get rid of some of those pesky little guys.

And when you are really desperate build some casinos nothing spells economic revitalization like a Casino.

It seems to me that you can pretty much break down businesses into two types. Those that create wealth and those that consume it.
An Optimist is eventually wrong, A Pessimist is eventually right.
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby Chaparral » Mon 21 May 2007, 13:53:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', 'D')o you have the necessary tools to mold composites?

That would be awesome to make small wind turbine systems and sell them.


I dont have those....yet. The molds could be made albeit with great amounts of time and skill: mold makers were near the top of the heap in the old days. I don't know about the injection/heating apparatus: if it's doable, i tend to want to give it a try.

F'Yeah! A freakishly strong yet light weight composite rotor spinning on bearings? That would be sweet. Maybe we could combine that with some sort of computer aided design optimized for lower windspeeds as well.
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby oowolf » Mon 21 May 2007, 17:22:22

1975 TMEN reprint of really, spooky, spot-on peak oil doomer prediction by Peter van Dresser from 1938:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/DIY/1975 ... ation.aspx
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby 128shot » Mon 21 May 2007, 18:06:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SevenTen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('128shot', 'U')nless you completely suck ass and aren't willing to lie, you can make it up the ladder that is life.

I think what you meant to say was that if:
* you don't completely suck ass
* you are willing to lie

Then you can make it up the ladder.

Capitalism doesn't reward honesty, it rewards growth. Growth always involves taking something from somewhere else.



Yesterday was a terrible day for me. That-in essence-was a rant.


My point being is, you will have to screw someone over to get what you want in life-thats just the way life is-thats how it has always been. You don't have to necessarily cheat and steal, but a good faced lie and a couple dirty tricks can make your life better 20 years down the road.


And as far as college loans go-Why don't people apply for those pity 500 dollar scholarships? I'm sure there are enough of those to pay for college.
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby eric_b » Mon 21 May 2007, 18:18:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chaparral', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', 'T')hems pennies are good for makin motors with!


Oh they most assuredly are! Pennies and nickels are all going into my strategic metals reserve. Next purchase will be a crucible and one of those parabolic dishes that can focus enough sunlight to melt aluminum. Imagine if we could do some small scale metallurgy without so much as cutting down a single tree for the charcoal!


When I was a kid in the early 80's I used to collect nickels as they have (had?) the most valuable metal per $.

Now all the coin currency is so debased this is no longer the case. Aren't pennies primarily made of zinc, and nickels a copper-nickel mixture?

How far back does one have to go to find pennies that are mostly copper and nickels that are still made with nickel?

I used to look for silver dimes and quarters - hardly ever find them now. In the 70's and early 80's there were still a few in circulation.
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Mon 21 May 2007, 18:27:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd as far as college loans go-Why don't people apply for those pity 500 dollar scholarships? I'm sure there are enough of those to pay for college.


If it were that easy, I wouldn't have any debt right now. People take what they can get and there isn't enough for everyone.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Mon 21 May 2007, 18:28:48

Don't bother hoarding much of anything. Not even gold.

Remember, we're due for a 90% cut in population. 90% of us can feel good as we die, if we know that's what Westerners did to American Aborigines and Pacific Islanders. Also Australian aborigines and anyone else who got in our way.

There's going to be just gobs of stainless, nickel, and gold, and anything else in the way of crashed-civilization castoffs for everyone who bothers to pick the shit up off of the ground or dig a little for it.

Stainless may be valuable because it's possible to grind it into tools, most metals will come behind flint in usefulness to someone who simply needs a decent blads to skin a deer with.

That's right, flint/obsidian/chert are far superior to anything our modern monster-civ has created, metals (which take tons of energy for smelting etc) were only resorted to when flint etc got scarce.

Don't worry about hoarding anything more than what you may need yourself to survive a shut-in period while you wait out a plague. Make sure you smile as you watch all those others die, they deserve it. After plague, dieoff, whatever, stuff to trade won't be worth it to over survivors who only have to pick it up off of the ground.
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Re: US Economy and life in a slow steady death spiral

Unread postby roccman » Mon 21 May 2007, 18:36:09

"Don't worry about hoarding anything more than what you may need yourself to survive a shut-in period while you wait out a plague. Make sure you smile as you watch all those others die, they deserve it. After plague, dieoff, whatever, stuff to trade won't be worth it to over survivors who only have to pick it up off of the ground."

Excellent insight!!

Our PTB are planning the same strategy I would guess.
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