[essex]

Colorado River Streamflow History Reveals Megadrought Before 1490

Obviously the result of hitherto secret industrialization and the burning of fossil fuels.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 152428.htm

[Plantagenet]

That period corresponds to the medieval climatic optimum in Europe, a time when some data suggests climate was warmer then today.

The idea that the climate in Europe and North America was warmer then present five hundred years ago, even without any human greenhouse gases, is controversial because it doesn't fit well with the Greenhouse model of global climate change.

[essex]

Quite right Plantagenet, my purpose for posting this is to put the hysterical climate change scenarios into perspective. Greenland is called green land because in the Medieval warm period that is exactly what it was - green . In recent weeks I have read authoritative "reports " that co2 will turn the seas to acid
but only today another " report" which says the seas have reached their limit for co2 absorption !
Something to ponder.

Ten facts about global warming
THEY don’t want you to know


Britain is one degree Celsius cooler now than it was at the time of the Domesday book.
Greenland got its name from the verdant pastures that attracted the Norse settlers under Eric the Red in 986. They carried on their normal way of life (based on cattle, grain, hay and herring) for 300 years until the Little Ice Age, when they were driven off by the encroaching ice and the Inuit took over. The ice and the Inuit are still there.
Carbon dioxide is a minor greenhouse gas. In the atmosphere there is over a hundred times the concentration of water vapour, which is the dominant greenhouse gas.
Without the Greenhouse Effect there would be no life on Earth.
Temperature measurements by satellite, radio sonde balloons and well maintained rural surface stations in the West show no significant warming.
The evidence of significant warming comes from stations that are probably affected by a variety of factors that contaminate the data.
Computer models of the climate are worthless, as they are based on many assumptions about interactions between climate factors that are still unknown to science. They are generally unstable and chaotic, giving a wide variety of answers depending on the input assumptions.
The Kyoto agreement would have a devastating effect on the world economy but, since carbon dioxide is a minor greenhouse gas, an undetectable effect on the climate.
The IPCC (the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) has been the main engine for promoting the global warming scare. It has become notorious for its corrupt practices of doctoring its reports and executive summaries, after they have been approved by the participating scientists, to conform to its political objectives
The really big lie about man-made global warming is that almost all scientists accept it. More than 4,000 scientists from 106 countries, including 72 Nobel prize winners, signed the Heidelberg Appeal (1992), calling for a rational scientific approach to environmental problems. Many senior scientists have also supported The Statement by Atmospheric Scientists on Greenhouse Warming (1992), The Leipzig Declaration (1997) and finally the Oregon Petition (1998) which received the signatures of over 19,000 scientists.

http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/ten_facts_ ... arming.htm

[Zentric]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('essex', 'T')he IPCC (the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) has been the main engine for promoting the global warming scare. It has become notorious for its corrupt practices of doctoring its reports and executive summaries, after they have been approved by the participating scientists, to conform to its political objectives.

[essex]

"Hey, Plantagenet, if you don't mind, could you show this guy the door? "

Generous of you , Torquemada, looks like a Bush tactic, especially after I read the links you provided.

Confusing responsible stewardship of the earth with the actual cause of what appears to be a natural cyclical warming of the earth just ain't too bright.

Oh, well, cyberspace sure is fun. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that you're not old enough to remember the scare in the '70's when it looked like we were heading into an ice age.

[Zentric]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('essex', '"')Hey, Plantagenet, if you don't mind, could you show this guy the door? "

Generous of you , Torquemada, looks like a Bush tactic, especially after I read the links you provided.

Confusing responsible stewardship of the earth with the actual cause of what appears to be a natural cyclical warming of the earth just ain't too bright.

Oh, well, cyberspace sure is fun. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that you're not old enough to remember the scare in the '70's when it looked like we were heading into an ice age.

[Cloud9]

The global warming debate is sounding more like a religious argument. The true believers are lining up with faith rapidly replacing reason.

[shakespear1]

Well this does not make me feel any better.

Considering that in the time period that we are referring to here, man did not have the impact on his environment that he does today.

Just consider the damage done to the oceans, rivers, lakes, jungles, etc., is enough to indicate that the climate change we see today must be a little bit more than "nature at work" a thousand years or more ago.

[deMolay]

I do know for a fact that deposited in the Canadian Museum of Civilization in Ottawa, Ontario. Are numerous Viking artifacts from the Canadian high Arctic. They have been carbon dated and authenticated. They have also been found in the Hudson's Bay and James Bay shore lines. In order for the Vikings to venture so far west in the Canadian Arctic in open boats the Canadian scientists estimate that the climate was at least 5 or 6 degrees warmer than at present. They have also reported Viking artifacts close to the Alaska coastline but have not finished cataloging them.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'T')hey have also reported Viking artifacts close to the Alaska coastline but have not finished cataloging them.

[essex]

"And how can you be so sure of your position such that you can claim to be advocating "responsible stewardship of the earth" while still keeping a straight face?

Tell us, because pimply straight-faced 18-year old kids want to know..."

Any parent will tell you that 18 year olds can't be told anything because they already know everything. Another trait of the 18 year old mind is the reluctance to do any meaningful research , so just for you I am posting a news story where Augie Auer, a professor of meteorolgy addressed a meeting of farmers in NZ.

Global warming debunked
By ANDREW SWALLOW - The Timaru Herald | Saturday, 19 May 2007

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Climate change will be considered a joke in five years time, meteorologist Augie Auer told the annual meeting of Mid Canterbury Federated Farmers in Ashburton this week.

Man's contribution to the greenhouse gases was so small we couldn't change the climate if we tried, he maintained.

"We're all going to survive this. It's all going to be a joke in five years," he said.

A combination of misinterpreted and misguided science, media hype, and political spin had created the current hysteria and it was time to put a stop to it.

"It is time to attack the myth of global warming," he said.

Water vapour was responsible for 95 per cent of the greenhouse effect, an effect which was vital to keep the world warm, he explained.

"If we didn't have the greenhouse effect the planet would be at minus 18 deg C but because we do have the greenhouse effect it is plus 15 deg C, all the time."

The other greenhouse gases: carbon dioxide, methane, nitrogen dioxide, and various others including CFCs, contributed only five per cent of the effect, carbon dioxide being by far the greatest contributor at 3.6 per cent.

However, carbon dioxide as a result of man's activities was only 3.2 per cent of that, hence only 0.12 per cent of the greenhouse gases in total. Human-related methane, nitrogen dioxide and CFCs etc made similarly minuscule contributions to the effect: 0.066, 0.047 and 0.046 per cent respectively.

"That ought to be the end of the argument, there and then," he said.

"We couldn't do it (change the climate) even if we wanted to because water vapour dominates."

Yet the Greens continued to use phrases such as "The planet is groaning under the weight of CO2" and Government policies were about to hit industries such as farming, he warned.

"The Greens are really going to go after you because you put out 49 per cent of the countries emissions. Does anybody ask 49 per cent of what? Does anybody know how small that number is?

"It's become a witch-hunt; a Salem witch-hunt," he said.

[Zentric]

Essex -

Apparently, there isn't universal agreement that Augie Auer knows what he's talking about. For example, here is an excerpt from an article I found that directly rebuts his claims:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Thomas Everth', 'T')o come back to the example of the house: Imagine that you have 6 windows through which you can see out. 4 are covered by a mile high stack of thick black blankets (water vapour). Now somebody darkens one of the last two open windows with a thin sheet of dark fabric. How would that affect your house?

Augie says: How come you argue about one little thin sheet of fabric when I can see that stack of thick blankets…. Well, it all matters where you put it as it seems….

And so it goes that these few hundred parts per billion of Co2 will have a very dramatic effect on life on Earth.

[essex]

You have a problem zentric, the wheels are coming off your climate catastrophe. Your friend plantagenet at least has the grace to admit that there is more than one angle to this.

Still, you can always practice what you preach , turn off your computer ( saving CO2 emmissions of course ), tidy up your room and go out and plant a tree, or do you intend to continue with hundreds more hand wringing, self confirming posts ?
Your choice,
Ciao.

[Zentric]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('essex', 'Y')ou have a problem zentric, the wheels are coming off your climate catastrophe. Your friend plantagenet at least has the grace to admit that there is more than one angle to this.

Still, you can always practice what you preach , turn off your computer ( saving CO2 emmissions of course ), tidy up your room and go out and plant a tree, or do you intend to continue with hundreds more hand wringing, self confirming posts ?
Your choice,
Ciao.

[Chaparral]

Augie Auer got PWN3D! CO2 makes a better door than a window, as do obscurantists like Augie Auer who don't seem to know their asses from their elbows. Augie, move out of the way! You're blocking the light you dumb shit!

Regardless of any climate change in the past, the additional CO2 and CH4 forcings are what could take us into uncharted territory. We are playing a very high stakes game with a very cavalier attitude. Mankind is like a novice futures trader that repeatedly bets his entire account balance on one trade.

[wxman]

The Earth has been warming and cooling throughout its history, but that in no way is contradictory with the anthropogenic climate change argument.

Maybe if someone could come up with a reason why the Earth is warming so rapidly (in a geologic sense) right now, there could be a debate.

(data from the Max Planck Institute, commentary by me)