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Do we need electricity?

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.
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Re: Do we need electricity?

Unread postby skyemoor » Fri 30 Mar 2007, 15:55:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'S')ewage treatment accounts for more than 30% of municipal electric demand. Without sewage treatment we will die.


Unless we converted over to composting toilets.
Last edited by skyemoor on Fri 30 Mar 2007, 16:03:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do we need electricity?

Unread postby skyemoor » Fri 30 Mar 2007, 16:00:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IslandCrow', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mu', 'D')oes anyone here really need electricity?


At present I would say "Yes": 1) for cooking, 2) for heat, 3) for light in the long dark winters.


1. cooking - solar on sunny days, non-heated food on others
2. heat - superinsulated passive solar house augmented by tiny woodstove on cloudy days
3. light - candles, and see superinsulation above.
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Re: Do we need electricity?

Unread postby lateStarter » Fri 30 Mar 2007, 17:49:33

I like this 'Mu' guy/girl... Keep it up! Although I think electricity will be the last to go (at least for the rich), the fact that people are currently living without it and the fact that people lived without it in the past means that we/some will be able to survive without it in the near future. We won't have any choice...
We have been brought into the present condition in which we are unable neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them. - Livy
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Re: Do we need electricity?

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 30 Mar 2007, 18:42:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jato', 'D')on't forget water:


I don't know what you're talking about. My water just flows out of a big rock on it's own volition. I catch it in a big jug and carry it home. Maybe what people needs is not electricity but to live somewhere that's not a desert?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'S')ewage treatment accounts for more than 30% of municipal electric demand. Without sewage treatment we will die.

Again, sewage treatment at my house means sprinkling some lime in the outhouse when you're done. I don't seem to have died yet. Humanure composting is as safe, and way more logical than centralized sewage. It also doesn't require electricity.
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Re: Do we need electricity?

Unread postby topcat » Fri 30 Mar 2007, 22:21:35

When I started reading this thread, my immediate two thoughts were Internet and refrigeration.

Love the communications network, phones, PC, fax, cable TV, et.

Aslo love my BEER at 32F year-round. Do not want to cut and store ice.

Don't have sewer (no big loss, big monthly $'s savings), could put a hand pump on the well, and I guess cut wood for the woodburner.
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Re: Do we need electricity?

Unread postby tambayo » Sat 19 May 2007, 16:01:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skyemoor', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IslandCrow', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mu', 'D')oes anyone here really need electricity?


At present I would say "Yes": 1) for cooking, 2) for heat, 3) for light in the long dark winters.


1. cooking - solar on sunny days, non-heated food on others
2. heat - superinsulated passive solar house augmented by tiny woodstove on cloudy days
3. light - candles, and see superinsulation above.


Add hot plate to the tiny woodstove for cooking in cloudy/cold weather. You'll want and need hot food after a long cold day outside.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('topcat', '
')Aslo love my BEER at 32F year-round. Do not want to cut and store ice.

So don't, toss a couple of bottles with water in the freezer and use that. Light weight and no leaking water to clean up or slip over. And a freezer works better when full.
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Re: Do we need electricity?

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 19 May 2007, 16:38:14

Yeah, running water,especially hot , is nice. One could manage with a rainwater collection system, solar hot water heater, and elevated tank with hand pump (like folks used to have on buildings for water pressure). Modest refrigeration can be achieved with the clay pot (Zeer) fridge, for butter, eggs, etc.


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Re: Do we need electricity?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sat 19 May 2007, 19:00:27

People on this site always assume that the little but extremely productive energy uses will die out but the massive and only somewhat productive energy uses will stick around.

For example, at 8 cents a kilowatt:

A computer costs 78 cents/week

A bug zapper costs 150 cents/week

Now which item will I shut off first?

A clothes washer costs 30 cents/load if I use the hot/warm setting.

Or 2.5 cents per load if I use the cold/cold setting.

Now what exactly is the advantage of using the hot/warm setting on underwear or blue jeans?

We can cut our electricity use DRAMATICALLY without causing significant decreases in our collective standard of living.

Moreover, a drier costs 41 cents per load!

Or I could buy $4.10 worth of rope and clothes pins to take care of that problem indefinitely. (You can dry clothes inside a house too, ya know).

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Re: Do we need electricity?

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 19 May 2007, 20:55:28

Mmmm, but those nice soft towels from the drier are so comfy!
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Re: Do we need electricity?

Unread postby Omnitir » Sun 20 May 2007, 21:26:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')In fact, more live without electricity now, than ever before in human history.
...
And yet... more starve today than ever before in man's history.
...
More die of treatable disease & suffer from oppression of various strips than ever.

All these advances have provided the wealthy with the most comfortable, safe life ever known on Earth... & has ushered in an era of human suffering never before seen, for everybody else.

All in the service of ego.

Praise HawkMan.

You're distorting the facts, HawkMan. It's easy to point to today's large population and say "more people suffer then ever before", but that's simply because there are more people then ever before. It's just as correct to say that there are more millionaires today then ever before.

Of course a more accurate thing to look at is per capita, and what do we see? Looks like more people have electricity - on a per capita basis - then ever before. Likewise, there is more food per person then at anytime in human history, and there is less disease then ever before.

Ah, technology is an amazing thing. It has greatly improved the average quality of life for humanity, and at the same time, it has greatly enhanced the Luddites ability to preach a message of doom and gloom.


And yes, we need electricity. Without it, a lot of people will die.
"Mother Nature is a psychopathic bitch, and she is out to get you. You have to adapt, change or die." - Tihamer Toth-Fejel, nanotech researcher/engineer.
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Re: Do we need electricity?

Unread postby Judgie » Mon 21 May 2007, 06:16:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', '
')
Ah, technology is an amazing thing. It has greatly improved the average quality of life for humanity, and at the same time, it has greatly enhanced the Luddites ability to preach a message of doom and gloom.

May I correct you on that?

It has greatly improved the average quality of life for a relatively small slice of humanity.
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Re: Do we need electricity?

Unread postby Denny » Tue 22 May 2007, 12:31:12

[quote="JudgieMay I correct you on that?

It has greatly improved the average quality of life for a relatively small slice of humanity.[/quote]

Yeah, but that is our slice!
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