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What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby Denny » Mon 14 May 2007, 17:22:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'C')ontrast this to the sad state of affairs in New Orleans in 2005.


Denny, in New Orleans the same community spirit and people helping people happened that happened in the '97 Red River floods.

My wife shuttled refugees in buses. Friends of mine who are paramedics and police packed up their gear and drove there. I let a fellow from N.O. whom I'd never met live for a month in a vacant house I owned here in Texas.

I work everyday with the animals Ayoob describes. In New Orleans they dominated the international news. You never saw the millions of people like me helping out.



It is heartwarming to hear this, and I sure hope that the great city of New Orleans gets the pieces put back together. I spent most of week there back in April 2005, lucky I made it before the big storm. I really enjoyed so much, not the Bourbon St. stuff , but the antique shops and the art gallery and the waterfront.

I did see some of the sad sack stuff, like the housing projects near the civic center, but most of what I saw was a liveable city. Cetainly a lot of street people though.
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby basil_hayden » Mon 14 May 2007, 19:03:09

What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Same as the Middle East...

Start handing out more automatic and semiautomatic weapons and boatloads of ammo. For free.

People in rural communities are much more aware of their surroundings, while city folk are aware of how good they look in their new car, suit or cell phone (yes I generalize).
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby syncline » Mon 14 May 2007, 19:07:45

The "inner city" populations are in an evolutionary sense, winners - armed, highly fertile. and expanding in numbers. You childless geeks should ask yourselves what can be done to help you.
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby max_power29 » Tue 15 May 2007, 03:37:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('syncline', 'T')he "inner city" populations are in an evolutionary sense, winners - armed, highly fertile. and expanding in numbers.[because of government welfare] You childless geeks should ask yourselves what can be done to help you.


There fixed that. they will not survive without the nanny state supporting them.
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby holmes » Tue 15 May 2007, 13:13:22

ALL the nanny state dependents are done. In fact all the nanny state corporate, buerocracy, dependents, etcc are on the streets in due time. They are incapable of supporting themselves. They only know food is grown in the conveniance stores, liquer stores and grocery stores. The nanny state supporters are cruel and brutal and racist. They speak like they are so compasionate and loving and nurturing to their poo and downtrodden slaves and voter blocks. ha WE see through them like a window. They have created a massive popualtion density that will die off brutally and violent. Ah yes they love all their little slaves. Many will migrate into the land after the cities are sacked to be met with starvation, fatigue and death.
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby holmes » Tue 15 May 2007, 13:17:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('syncline', 'T')he "inner city" populations are in an evolutionary sense, winners - armed, highly fertile. and expanding in numbers. You childless geeks should ask yourselves what can be done to help you.

Ladies and gentlemen we have exposed another one! The gubmint slaves are dead. They will die horribly either in strife or starvation. There will be noone to take care of them. The supermarkets will cease growing food for them. They will maybe survive raiding others gardens and such however soon enough they will perish. Your logic is specious and devoid of ecological common sense. Please think before you post. Dependent welfare state recipients are doomed far more than childess geeks. The geeks at least will not see their children die off violently and brutally. This "fertile" gene pool you speak of is only viable as long as the OIL BASED welfare state is in place. Dead end. My children and the children I take in under my wing will most likely survive. Your "fertile" gene pool you speak of is weak and putrid.
"To crush the Cornucopians, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby bshirt » Tue 15 May 2007, 15:58:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('syncline', 'T')he "inner city" populations are in an evolutionary sense, winners - armed, highly fertile. and expanding in numbers. You childless geeks should ask yourselves what can be done to help you.

Ladies and gentlemen we have exposed another one! The gubmint slaves are dead. They will die horribly either in strife or starvation. There will be noone to take care of them. The supermarkets will cease growing food for them. They will maybe survive raiding others gardens and such however soon enough they will perish. Your logic is specious and devoid of ecological common sense. Please think before you post. Dependent welfare state recipients are doomed far more than childess geeks. The geeks at least will not see their children die off violently and brutally. This "fertile" gene pool you speak of is only viable as long as the OIL BASED welfare state is in place. Dead end. My children and the children I take in under my wing will most likely survive. Your "fertile" gene pool you speak of is weak and putrid.


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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby lotrfan55345 » Wed 16 May 2007, 00:05:20

There have been lots of cases for urban gentrification. Look at San Fransisco, Harlem, etc. Sometimes, a mess can get fixed.
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 16 May 2007, 17:27:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lotrfan55345', 'T')here have been lots of cases for urban gentrification. Look at San Fransisco, Harlem, etc. Sometimes, a mess can get fixed.


Well, that only means moving the poor people out and moving in a bunch of Yuppies. :-D

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad idea, I'm merely pointing out that it's not really a long term solution to crime and poverty.
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby Chaparral » Mon 21 May 2007, 05:05:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '
')Gentrification isn't fixing a mess, it's sweeping the mess off into another corner or under the rug.


Agreed. I might add that in some places, the poor are being forced to the inhospitable exurbs. In LA, the core is gentrifying but farflung and formerly lily-white exurbs like Lancaster/Palmdale, Moreno Valley etc are seeing an influx of folks fleeing the city. They bring a good deal of their crime problems with them.

It might be interesting to see if this is happening in other US cities as well.
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby ccricers » Sun 27 May 2007, 03:11:04

In Chicago, Mayor Daley had the notion of setting up "mixed income housing" but I don't think the idea ever went into full stages of production. I would imagine that such a thing won't work, as the demographics would just automatically spiral down to the lowest income. And those in higher economic classes would prefer to live in places where they come with the least contact of lower classes due to their fear of crime.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('max_power29', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('syncline', 'T')he "inner city" populations are in an evolutionary sense, winners - armed, highly fertile. and expanding in numbers.[because of government welfare] You childless geeks should ask yourselves what can be done to help you.


There fixed that. they will not survive without the nanny state supporting them.


Yes, I also believe that in a state of crisis, these will be among the first to get screwed over. Developing a large appetite for government assistance is not good. This reflects on their behaviors and general impact they have on society. It is not a racial thing; people raised on perpetual handicaps have certain expectations. They see certain privileges as neccesities. It is why some people are so PC when they feel the slightest bit of injustice.
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby Denny » Sun 27 May 2007, 10:20:11

I wonder, back in the Roman toimes, if the city dwellers who all came to rely on the bread and circuses given by the empror were the first to perish when the SHTF and the vandals started ripping down the glory of Rome.
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby Baldwin » Sun 27 May 2007, 14:10:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'I') wonder, back in the Roman toimes, if the city dwellers who all came to rely on the bread and circuses given by the empror were the first to perish when the SHTF and the vandals started ripping down the glory of Rome.


If a crash does play out, then yes. Welfare goes to pay for the cheapest food on the market....McDonald's and they are distracted by America's grotesquely inordinate amount of sporting events, so when those go Bye-bye, Shaniqua, Tyrone, and Jose will have an axe to grind. Those "Limousine Liberals" (coined by a forum goer here) living in those multimillion dollar penthouses will be roasted alive while children skip rope with their intestines by the angry minorities.

Again, all this is if your doomer fantasies play out.
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby Mircea » Sun 27 May 2007, 18:04:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'W')hat is it about America's inner cities, the families and the education of people, that so many have lost the ability to fend for themselves, or plan ahead?


Once upon a time, there was a cage with lots of rats inside. Within the cage, conditions were unpleasant - it was crowded, dirty, and the food was of poor quality. Rat fights were common.

Fortunately, there were exits. Any rat smart enough to navigate the maze could get out, and enter a better area. Over time, many did. So the smart rats, along with some lucky rats, got into the better cages. Cages that were cleaner and had more room and better food. Some even had exercise wheels!

Alas, that meant that the less intelligent rats stayed in the bad part of the cage. And so the situation persisted, as countless generations of rats were born, lived, and passed to their ratly reward.

But the smart rats, along with the lucky rats, also enjoyed a persistent state of affairs. They passed on their genes, their ways of doing things, their version of rodent culture. And in doing so, their offspring were consistently able to survive and prosper.

Oh well. Humans and rats are so very different. I rarely see a human twitch its nose effectively. 8)


Wow, I'd like to read more about that.

It reminds me of another experiment with the common white laboratory mice. Two males and two females were placed in a 6' x 8' x 4' cage, in a sterile room at optimum temperature and humidity. The mice were given all the food and water they needed. The experiment was recorded using time-lapse video.

The population grew slowly at first, then exploded and rapidly rose to reach a peak were it leveled off. Then something bizarre happened.

The mice began exhibiting anti-social behavior. Despite the fact that more than ample food and water were available, the parents killed their young. Groups of mice attacked and killed other mice. As the population rapidly declined, mice isolated themsevles from other mice and failed to breed.

The experiment ended when the last mouse died, which if I remember correctly was about 2- 3 months into the experiment. The experiment frightened the lab team. The were stunned and never expected something like that to happen in a mouse colony.
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby Jack » Sun 27 May 2007, 18:22:10

A similar experiment, actually.

Add a couple of side cages with small entry-ways.

It turned out that an alpha rat took over each side cage, along with some associated females. The antisocial behavior you mention took place in the main cage. The small cages remained relatively comfortable.

I regret that I don't have a citation; it would be interesting to review.

But your experiment is fascinating. I don't suppose you'd have a reference I could look at to read more?
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Re: What can be done about the inner cities spirit?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 27 May 2007, 19:45:59

The research on rat overcrowding was done by John B. Calhoun

http://www.friends.org/issues/density.html

"Hypersexuality. Homosexuality.
Child neglect. Assault.
Cannibalism.

These were the "social pathologies" caused by the crowding of Norway rats, according to research by John R. Calhoun, published in Scientific American in February, 1962.

Calhoun's rat crowding research reinforced longstanding anti-urban prejudices held by Americans. By the beginning of the 20th century, when many Americans thought of big cities, they thought of disease, government corruption, and tenements.... Norway rats themselves symbolized urban slums.

Within a few years of Calhoun's article, America's inner cities erupted in riots. The press and pop psychologists looked to Calhoun's rat research for an explanation of these urban conflicts based on human psychology and urban density, ignoring the obvious roots of unrest in racism and unfair public policies.

Today, in debates over the strategy of promoting more compact urban development, critics make—and the media accepts—unchallenged assertions that increases in density lead to social problems and crime, invoking the common memory of Calhoun's famous article.

Density pathologies debunked

But Calhoun's research, as applied to human settlements, has been largely discredited in the last twenty years.
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