[Denny]

I just watched a documentary about the terrrible Red River floods of 1997, now is the 10th anniversary. It was an eerie sight to see the pictures of the extent of the flooding, when temporarily, the Red River widened to become one of the ten largest lakes in North America. Hundreds of thousands of people displaced in North Dakota and Manitoba. But, most all had been familiar with the Red River and its disposition to flood terribly every generation or so. Also, the river flooded over a number of days.

What was so moving to me was seeing how organized the farmers seemed to be in the face of disaster. Everyone, it seems, had determined at just what stage of the flood they'd leave and they moved their cattle, fam equipment and ulimately themselves and their pets to be with neighbours, family or friends outside the flood plain. Some even crossed the border, there was that much international cooperation. They stayed tuned at all times to the water level conditioins, later by battery radios as the power was cut. Neighbours really helped neighbours. I didn't see any mention in the documentary of any loss of life, and it appears even the animals survived. Now, these were not rich people or necessrily educated people but you had to admire how they used their wits in the emergency.

Contrast this to the sad state of affairs in New Orleans in 2005. Here, similarly, people should have had their plans for evacuation and organized their families and stayed in tune to the conditions as the hurricane hit. Think about it, if you choose to live in a bowl, you'd be assinine not to think how to get out of it, and in a real hurry, when the waters rush in. I have been to New Orleans and its not such a large city that one could not have walked out of town in about two hours at the most, which I would have done. Nor was there even a decent municipal plan to take care of the handicapped. It was all so chaotic.

I don't know if New Orleans is so unique. Most of America's innner cities seem similar in the residents show a sense of total dependency. What is it about America's inner cities, the families and the education of people, that so many have lost the ability to fend for themselves, or plan ahead? Its as if the easy living of the city destroys people's inherent survival instincts. And, what about civic spirit? Why do farmers living a long distances from each other in North Dakota and Manitoba seem to have more sense of community than neighbours living side by side in New Orleans?

[jeezlouise]

That's an interesting question, as to why rural folk who are more spread out seem to have a stronger sense of community than people in the city who live shoulder to shoulder. Maybe it has to do with sheer numbers - people who live in the city probably see, on a day-to-day basis, far more people who they consider "strangers" than people living in the country, and we have to naturally somewhat distrust people we don't know, for safety's sake, and this attitude spills over into our neighborhoods, filling the space in our psyche where in the past we would have gotten to know our neighbors but instead we became too distracted with intrusive technology like 500-channel television, and too exhausted by the jobs we work to pay for such distractions. No time left for community-building.

[Fredrik]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'H')ow about making good and paying reparations for hundreds of years of slavery, servitude, and theft? That would be a nice start.

I read that back pay for slaves would be in the trillions.

[Fishman]

Seem to me that the "paying reparations " mindset is the difference in the two groups. One group sees a problem, works together to solve the problem, regardless of the government. The other group thinks the government will solve all their problems, no self initiative, "we are the victims" and we can't solve any of our own problems. Which group would you want to be in during a time of declining resources?

[bshirt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'H')ow about making good and paying reparations for hundreds of years of slavery, servitude, and theft? That would be a nice start.

I read that back pay for slaves would be in the trillions.

[Denny]

Most of the farmers in North Dakota and Manitoba are descendents of immigrants who came to this continent with little in the way of assets, not even a working knowledge of the English language.

Reparations may have been fair to the slaves, but not to their descendents. The "entitlement" mentality is just the kind of problem that I am writing about, its the opposite to self sufficiency.

Anyway my point was about the people in the inner cities and while the majority in New Orleans are descended from slaves, but not all, many are white and even among the blacks, many are descended from free creoles.

Does being black excuse one from the primary responsibility to take care of oneself and one's family? To say that is the most racist thing of all.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', ' ')reparations for hundreds of years of slavery, servitude, and theft? That would be a nice start.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'W')hat is it about America's inner cities, the families and the education of people, that so many have lost the ability to fend for themselves, or plan ahead?

[bshirt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'W')hat is it about America's inner cities, the families and the education of people, that so many have lost the ability to fend for themselves, or plan ahead?

[Fishman]

Pstar, your name calling skills are excellent. I noticed you neither responded to the initial question of the thread nor to follow up comments.
I actually think reparations are an excellent idea. Selective reparations by instiutions that benefited and propagated slavery, especially political parties. Now which party was it that supported slavery in the South? Oh yes, that would be the opposite party of Lincoln. Know the answer pstar?

[BastardSquad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', ' ') And, what about civic spirit? Why do farmers living a long distances from each other in North Dakota and Manitoba seem to have more sense of community than neighbours living side by side in New Orleans?

[Ayoob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'W')hy is it that dumb black people persist in living in the inner city? I mean duh! I mean its dirty and crowded there...and there's lots of crime. A smart person would have moved out long ago to where all the fresh clean air is. Oh wait the smart people (white) did...they all moved to the suburbs and left the dumb black people to fester in the inner city. Then they didn't even know what to do when there was a flood. Silly blacks...get in your cars and drive to your summer cabins...I can't believe those silly rats...I mean blacks.

[max_power29]

My ancestors were serfs in Scotland. The queen of England owes me millions!

NOT!!!

http://www.ifilm.com/video/2795934/show/17670

[max_power29]

I love your posts Ayoob, this world needs way more people to tell it like it is.

I had a girlfriend a long time ago; she had a FULL ride to the University of Oregon because her mom and dad are fucking loser addict/alcoholic/abusive/neglectful assholes from Northeast Portland (major Ghetto). She also got the full ride because her dad was originally from Panama.

Guess what?, she flunked out her first year and returned to Northeast Portland to live with her dad. I was totally in love with her. What a desperate retard I was!

[pea-jay]

I worked in the Ghetto (Westside Chicago) for one year at a school myself so I understand and have seen some of this stuff first hand. The most memorable (should say forgettable really) was being propositioned by a 50 year old crack whore with sores and a mustache while waiting for the bus. No I am not kidding either.

A certain amount of this is self reinforcing cultural inertia. They dont do better because they dont know better. It's the same way for any group of any socioeconomic strata. I grew up middle class from professionally educated parents and extended family that mostly found work in the governmental sectors, in classic Middle American fashion. This is what I knew, this it what I experienced. It also shaped what I became and whom married. My wife is the daughter of a teacher and a nurse and we both work for governmental agencies. Wealthy, elite types generally yield wealthy elite types. Tight knit but otherwise poor rural communities yield,,,surprise surprise, tightknit but otherwise poor communities as time marches on. Absent dramatic social, environmental or economic reengineering, why would anyone expect this to be any different. We rant about inertia elsewhere, but we fail to expect it here?

Well it is alive and well in our ghettos. Of course it's crapy there and sure many, if not most of the reasons lie in bad decision making. But how do you know better when there is no "better"? Inertia

It's the same when we get all frustrated when we tell people about the implications of peak oil and the next weekend they are talking about how they expect their housing value to resume growing or rationalize their latest gas guzzling vehicle purchase AFTER they have heard you. Inertia...

Here is another good anecdote. After Katrina forced the evacuation of refugees to all over the US, some papers checked into their status a year later. Turns out some of those who were living in cyclical poverty in NO, surrounded by those in identical situations to them were doing much better when moved out of there. They got jobs. They got education. And they moved on. The only difference to the other examples listed above was that they had no "home" to return to and no ghetto to get cosy with (if you can use that term).

For better or worse, those individuals relocated had their "cultural inertia of endemic poverty" broken by a series of dramatic, irreversable blows to their personal, physical and communal association so that they had no other choice than adapt.

Back at my school, the kids that did the best with their lives were the ones that left the community. For good.

I'm not defending, justifying or deflecting the blame of the ghetto residents to fix their situation. I'm just making a rational evaluation. Cultural inertia is damned difficult to break. Few manage it...

[Fishman]

The Hoods have not always been this way. Once poverty existed there but some self-respect and the desire to move ahead existed. Yes there was discrimination but desire to improve also. Then with the end of segregation liberals started screaming "you're victims, you are not responsible for your actions" and when one is not responsible for your actions, the present state of the hood is produced. The Democrates enslaved blacks in the past and they are enslaving them now. When a black leader like Cosby speaks up about the self induced situation, black leaders call him Uncle Tom. Or other screams "reparations" The world will always find some way to drag you down, being responsible for your own actions, getting an education are the only hope you have.
I disagree that this has anything to do with one's skin color. I work with African immigrants who are hard working, responsible, and are disgusted with the present situation. This is purely a cultural problem.

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'C')ontrast this to the sad state of affairs in New Orleans in 2005.

[Plantagenet]

Ayoob's post is right-on.

Everything he says is right, but I'm still a bit more optimistic.

I remain encouraged by the change I've seen in New York City since Giulianni introduced the "no tolerance" police policy. The improvement has been remarkable. Giulianni had the police ticket and arrest as necessary all the people doing the small thuggeries.....ticket the graffiti vandals, ticket the aggressive panhandlers, ticket the people jumping subway turnstiles and arrest shoplifters and generally have a no tolerance policy for all the little crap. Turns out the same folks doing big crimes were the ones doing all the little stuff. Go figure.

I think that kind of tough approach can help.