[PenultimateManStanding]

We aren't wired to understand a die-off. Our minds are given to us by nature or God depending on your outlook. But conceiving a yeast-like die off for us is not emotionally accessible. Look into your own feelings to address this. My guess is that people here are using this to forward their own personal agendas, but when it actually goes down we are all going to suffer. It won't be like we thought it would be.

[Denny]

I always feel this "die-off" stuff is overly melodramatic. Are we so materialistic that we feel life is unlivable without all this stuff that seems to run our lives now?

North America came though the Second World War, when fuel, and all kinds of basic commodities were very scarce. I think the average family in Canada only got about 3 gallons of gasoline a week. No tires. No new housing exept for defined government camp type projects. Limited sugar and meat. Even the coins were changed to reduce demand for copper and silver.

People recycled like never before, learned how to repair everything they could, quite a trick as even parts were scarce, grew gardens, and worked their tails off. Migrated from car travel to public transit for work. Mail delivery was cut from twice a day to once a day, but never restored. People were happy to get into a 900 square foot home after the war. But, were they any less happy or healthy really than we are today?

Why not again if it that is what it takes?

Just think how much poorer everybody was back then and we came though it, except for the soldiers who died overseas.

[Eli]

See Denny I get your point.

The problem is that some of us are going to have to give up food.

We are not going to be able to go back in time so fast.

What there are 6 billion moths to feed now?

I agree with Pen. We are not wired for this, it is outside all of our frame of reference.

[Denny]

I am just thinking of Canada, and maybe the U.S.A., as that is what I am familiar with. Population density is not really so much different. Yes, if you look at the whole country, but in the populated areas, I don't the density of developed neighbourhoods is any different today, maybe even less dense.

If the typical family was cut to just 3 gallons of gas per week, and air conditioning was abolished expect for the odd day the temp exceeds say 30 degrees, don't you think our continental resources would support that for a long time to come? Over time, some larger homes could be turned into flats, so that the heating cost was spread over more people. It used to be more common.

If I look at the traffic in say Toronto today, I suspect that if everybody left their cars at home, the commute could still be done, but it would require really staggering the work day hours. Say people were to come in between 6:30 and 10:30 and leave between 2:30 and 7:30 pm. I say that as about half of the commuters today use transit. That would shift to about 90% I assume. Over time, as more transit equipment was introduced, this would change too and becomce more accommodating. Some cities, like London have about 80% of the people using transit, so it can be done, its just in the economics.

As for population density, Toronto city proper had about 600,000 people in WW2, and today it has 2.3 million, but they are spread over an area about four times as large. I'd think Toronto is typical of North American cities in this pop. growth and spread regard.

There are all kinds of basic commodities in which we are self sufficient, we are really lucked out here compared to much of the world. We have iron, copper, nickel, forests, and the best farm land in the world. We should be laughing, we have it so good.

[perdition79]

I agree that we're not supposed to be able to understand the concept of a die-off. We're predators designed for solving short-term problems, like hunting our dinner, and can't be expected to fully understand abstract concepts in anything other than primitive ways. That's why all my thoughts on a die-off revert to nothing more than the instinct of self-preservation.

[jupiters_release]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'I')t doesn't matter if we're wired or not for this. What matters is if a die-off will happen or not.

[pea-jay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'I')t doesn't matter if we're wired or not for this. What matters is if a die-off will happen or not.

[Bas]

“A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.”

- Joseph Stalin

[oowolf]

We're wired, we've just been programmed not to be aware of such things. The consensus reality for most first worldlings is a zombieland of consumerism from cradle to grave. Don't bother to think about anything REAL, we have "experts" to do that.

Contrast with the upbringing of a Kogi Mama described in Alan Ereira's "The Elder Brothers".

[dinopello]

I think pea-jay's points are true. Also, on the basic premise, would a 30 y.o. mother in Africa who had her children all die of starvation or disease have the same understanding of die-off as talking to your average 30 y.o. moviegoer at the uptown multiplex in the U.S. ? I think this is more environment more than wiring.

[basil_hayden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raphael', ' ')
The average Joe starts threads like these.


Raphael

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '
')PenultimateJoeStanding?

[kaboom]

A dieoff will surely come sooner or later... what is unfair is that it is not going to be equally distributed.... poor countries will possible be greatly affected, almost to the point of a total annihilation, while developed countries(to be more specific, the people who will be able to afford it) will count with the technology and economy to minimize the effects....

[pea-jay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kaboom', 'A') dieoff will surely come sooner or later... what is unfair is that it is not going to be equally distributed.... poor countries will possible be greatly affected, almost to the point of a total annihilation, while developed countries(to be more specific, the people who will be able to afford it) will count with the technology and economy to minimize the effects....

[SevenTen]

We can find ways of managing the end of life, but we are clueless about how to manage the end of a way of life.

The unfair aspect of it all is, unfortunately, that it will include me. I had always thought an exception would be made in my case.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'W')e aren't wired to understand a die-off. Our minds are given to us by nature or God depending on your outlook. But conceiving a yeast-like die off for us is not emotionally accessible. Look into your own feelings to address this. My guess is that people here are using this to forward their own personal agendas, but when it actually goes down we are all going to suffer. It won't be like we thought it would be.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'S')ince we "mastered" agriculture, the premise of the thread could be true true, which is probably the reason we "mastered" agriculture. I can imagine a time in the past where hunting and gathering wasn't all it was cut out to be, with mini dieoffs. Then we figured out how to grow for a rainy day. Now we expect all the days to be sunny.