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Gas Boycotts: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

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Gas Boycotts: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 10 May 2007, 22:33:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')O GAS...On May 15th 2007 Don't pump gas on MAY 15th
>
> In April 1997, there was a "gas out" conducted nationwide in protest of
> gas prices. Gasoline prices dropped 30 cents a gallon overnight.
> On May 15th 2007, all internet users are to not go to a gas station in
> protest of high gas prices. Gas is now over $3.00 a gallon in most
> places.
>
> There are 73,000,000+ American members currently on the internet
> network, and the average car takes about 30 to 50 dollars to fill up.
> If all users did not go to the pump on the 15th, it would take
> $2,292,000,000.00 (that's almost 3 BILLION) out of the oil companies
> pockets for just one day, so please do not go to the gas station on May
> 15th and lets try to put a dent in the Middle Eastern oil industry for
> at least one day.
>
> If you agree (which I cant see why you wouldn't) resend this to all your
> contact list. With it saying, ''Don't pump gas on May 15th"

I just received this Email. Sorry buddy, I just dropped the bomb on him. I'm sure he's reading my responce and thinking "you're fricken nutz". :sad:

We most likely hit Peak Oil in 2006. I'm not going to get into too much bad news for you right now. It's a geological World Wide problem & you ain't seen nothing yet. Yes, the most important event in the 21st century has already happened and what we are starting to see is demand destruction. We as an Nation (the World actually) MUST use less oil every year from now on till forever. You can protest all you want. The Government is well aware of the problem. Without cheap oil & petrodollars our Country is going to take a slide like never before. It is too late for us. We needed to do something back in 1970 when the US hit peak oil. We didn't, we imported oil as a way out way. Can't do that anymore. We will hear about all the refineries not being able to meet the demand. This is due to, increased demand, heavy sour crude (light sweet crude is gone baby) & the oil companies not willing to update their equipment. Why invest billions of dollars into an industry when oil will become increasingly hard to extract and process. Where's the profit? Sure there's still lot's of oil, problem is, the harder & slower to extract & process.

The Major super oil fields are going into permanent decline. They all are aging fields from no later than the 1970's. There are none left like these on Earth anymore. Sorry finger pointing ain't going to get you anywhere on this one. Many 3rd World Counties are left out of buying oil right now. Zimbabwe only has electrical power 4 hours a day as I speak!

FYI: There is nothing like the power of oil. Plan B doesn't exist here in the USA. Get ready for gas shortages SOON! http://www.theoildrum.com/files/Zones.jpg
Last edited by vision-master on Thu 10 May 2007, 22:41:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby skyemoor » Thu 10 May 2007, 22:36:50

Yes, I had similar incidents myself, and some have been left slack-jawed. Denial will likely set in for some, though others are starting to ask questions.

The GAO report helps, btw, because it is so recent and has a GOV stamp on it.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby DantesPeak » Thu 10 May 2007, 22:59:19

Yes, PO is the primary problem here – more specifically light sweet crude which peaked two years ago. Also shortly afterwards, almost two years ago, US gasoline production plus imports have started coming in less than total US gasoline demand. If not for an emergency transfer of gasoline inventories from a number of OECD countries after Hurricane Katrina, we would have had gasoline shortages already.

Essentially the 1,000,000,000 barrels of various grades of oil held in US commercial and SPR inventories will not prevent a shortage of gasoline from occurring.

Reorganizing the US gasoline and supply and distribution network to adjust to diminishing quantities of light sweet crude is not something the refineries will voluntarily want to pay for. The US government, with no strategic gasoline reserves or operating refineries, also can not step in to fill this void. Apparently the technology for lower quality crude is more complex, costly, and subject to more frequent breakdowns - which has contributed to lower refinery utilization.

No doubt the blame for failing to rapidly adjust to changing oil markets partly lies with the oil companies – as well as the government (for operating the SPR like some price controller) and even the American public (for not demanding higher mileage vehicles and standards). But more importantly, private industry does not have enough financial incentive to secure additional supplies and send them to the right refineries at the right time, at least not until operating profits are substantially increased. As the source, composition, and reliability of oil supplies continuously changes for the worse, refineries will demand a higher return on investment for risks taken.

However the desired rate of financial return for refineries can not be realized when the US Congress and the American public generally think that high gasoline prices are mostly due to price gouging. Therefore as light sweet crude continues its production down slope, refinery output will not adjust fast enough to the complex changing realities of PO, and gasoline output will further diminish.
It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby steam_cannon » Fri 11 May 2007, 00:25:41

MAY 15th the gas pumps will be empty? All right! That's when I'll go to filler up! :lol:
Last edited by steam_cannon on Fri 11 May 2007, 00:27:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby Sheb » Fri 11 May 2007, 00:25:49

I haven't gotten the "don't buy gas" form letter yet, but I do have similar discussions with naval folks all the time. When we discuss energy conservation and military fuel needs, I usually drop the bomb. Most buy it or already know. However, most think it will be an easy transition and that nuclear will be the nation's (not just the Navy's) savior. Usually, most of these guys are trained nukes, so I don't really discuss it further, since I am not (I'm a mech). I don't worry, though. It will sink in.

Anyone else gotten the "we'll just switch to nuclear" response?
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby KaiserCesar06 » Fri 11 May 2007, 01:12:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sheb', 'I') haven't gotten the "don't buy gas" form letter yet, but I do have similar discussions with naval folks all the time. When we discuss energy conservation and military fuel needs, I usually drop the bomb. Most buy it or already know. However, most think it will be an easy transition and that nuclear will be the nation's (not just the Navy's) savior. Usually, most of these guys are trained nukes, so I don't really discuss it further, since I am not (I'm a mech). I don't worry, though. It will sink in.

Anyone else gotten the "we'll just switch to nuclear" response?


I once was speaking with a friend of mine, and he asked, "well, when are you saying this is going to hit?" I responded, "it could happen very soon, but best case is something like 2015." He then stated, "we'll have fusion by then." Getting people to grasp the inability to implement technology on as large of a scale of oil is the second hurdle of explaining the problem to people after they understand peak oil.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby NeoPeasant » Fri 11 May 2007, 02:00:51

I will spend about 10 minutes at a bus stop in front of a busy gas station early on May 15, just like I do every workday. I will watch with interest to see if the gas pumps look any less busy than usual.

I have noticed that there about twice as many riders as usual on my bus since the gas around here hit $3.00
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby Paranoid_Android » Fri 11 May 2007, 02:32:23

I had this problem today talking to a friend. I consider him to be a very smart guy, but today I was left a little dumb founded. He just kept arguing that we'll continue to find more oil to sustain us to allow technological advancements time to save us. I put up a fight for a little while, but I just let it slide after a while.

Had another friend send me one of these emails about May 15th. I replied with a general outline of peak oil and how doing this for one day is utterly pointless and that only decreasing our consumption will truly help. She agreed with me for the most part, but she equated this demonstration to the civil rights movement (don't ask me to explain how she came to that conclusion, cause I have no idea). At this point I cried on the inside.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby pea-jay » Fri 11 May 2007, 02:42:27

Well on May 15, I'll do my part and not buy any gas. I bought 12gallons of gas on May 3, which should be enough to last me until July or August at the rate I am (not) driving my vehicle.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby Smudger » Fri 11 May 2007, 07:12:13

i never cease to be amazed at how low US petrol prices are. in the UK prices are c.$8 a gallon. Oh for a brave new US government who brings out an energy tax...might help reduce CO2 emissions too...
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby Johnston » Fri 11 May 2007, 07:33:24

Aren't people being too quick to blame peak oil for high prices?

The part of the supply chain being cited as the cause is refinery capacity.

So maybe the cause is peak-gasoline production rather than peak oil??

If oil was $10 a barrel and we had 100 years until peak, wouldn't there still be supply problems right now??

Imagine connecting to the internet with a 56K modem... would you say that the world is running out of bandwidth?? No, you would blame the weakest link which is the modem.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby sjn » Fri 11 May 2007, 08:30:18

Johnston, read Dantes' post above. If refinery utilisation was high then you'd have a point.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby aahala » Fri 11 May 2007, 11:36:41

> If all users did not go to the pump on the 15th, it would take
> $2,292,000,000.00 (that's almost 3 BILLION) out of the oil companies
> pockets for just one day, so please do not go to the gas station on May
> 15th and lets try to put a dent in the Middle Eastern oil industry for
> at least one day.

Where did you learn rounding? 2.292 b is a lot closer to 3 than
zero, but in absoutely no sense is it "almost 3 Billion."

The total figure is quite a bit above the total paid for gasoline
on a typical day even with today's prices. Whatever the actual figure might be, the total doesn't all go to the oil companies--some goes to the federal and state government, some even pays the $6 per hour clerk who takes your money.

If we don't buy gas on a particular day but fail to stop consuming
gas on that day, what good does that do? Just changing the day
of the week or frequency you buy gas won't reduce total useage
or the retail price.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby Eli » Fri 11 May 2007, 11:58:50

The key here is the grade of oil coming to market. The last time we ever heard about any spare capacity it was in KSA, they did bring oil to market but it went unsold it was a light sour grade with heavy metal contaminates.

The PO of light sweet is a mile stone that can be hidden in oil import numbers and production numbers.

The very first place it would show up is in refinery utilization.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby JoeW » Fri 11 May 2007, 15:51:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', 'J')ohnston, read Dantes' post above. If refinery utilisation was high then you'd have a point.


That statement is not really making sense to me. If the problem was peak oil, then crude oil would be setting the ceiling price for gasoline, not the floor. Gasoline is selling for about $2.30/gallon wholesale, or nearing $100/barrel. Compared to that, Light Sweet Crude is discounted 40% at $60/barrel. Clearly the refinery utilization is causing the high gas price--not oil supplies--unless the market and the weekly status reports from the DOE are all wrong.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby sjn » Fri 11 May 2007, 16:18:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JoeW', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', 'J')ohnston, read Dantes' post above. If refinery utilisation was high then you'd have a point.


That statement is not really making sense to me. If the problem was peak oil, then crude oil would be setting the ceiling price for gasoline, not the floor. Gasoline is selling for about $2.30/gallon wholesale, or nearing $100/barrel. Compared to that, Light Sweet Crude is discounted 40% at $60/barrel. Clearly the refinery utilization is causing the high gas price--not oil supplies--unless the market and the weekly status reports from the DOE are all wrong.


I see it like this:
The US does not produce all the gasoline it requires, it needs imports to make up the difference (or NOT, if there are shortages). Not all of the potential gasoline producers are buying their crude on the US spot market and the US refiners obviously have a maximum throughput rate for any given grade of crude (depending on the crack spread). The result of this is the price of gasoline is set at a price where the US can cover the cost of importing offset by the local production. The WTI price only affects the offset not the absolute price as reflected in the wholesale gasoline price.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby hippiepanda718 » Fri 11 May 2007, 16:59:04

Stupid. Nothing would happen if someone stopped pumping gas for one day. They would all either fill up on the 14th or wait until the 16th. Either way those "evil terrorists" are going to get their money's worth. So it's a mute point. "Gas boycotts" are redundant, old and pointless. Try again please!

The point is to lower your consumption of gas, not waiting certain days to NOT buy it.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby DantesPeak » Fri 11 May 2007, 17:07:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JoeW', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', 'J')ohnston, read Dantes' post above. If refinery utilisation was high then you'd have a point.


That statement is not really making sense to me. If the problem was peak oil, then crude oil would be setting the ceiling price for gasoline, not the floor. Gasoline is selling for about $2.30/gallon wholesale, or nearing $100/barrel. Compared to that, Light Sweet Crude is discounted 40% at $60/barrel. Clearly the refinery utilization is causing the high gas price--not oil supplies--unless the market and the weekly status reports from the DOE are all wrong.


I see it like this:
The US does not produce all the gasoline it requires, it needs imports to make up the difference (or NOT, if there are shortages). Not all of the potential gasoline producers are buying their crude on the US spot market and the US refiners obviously have a maximum throughput rate for any given grade of crude (depending on the crack spread). The result of this is the price of gasoline is set at a price where the US can cover the cost of importing offset by the local production. The WTI price only affects the offset not the absolute price as reflected in the wholesale gasoline price.


Yes, and because of the US’s reliance on foreign imports of gasoline – even though they constitute only 10% of total consumption – the wholesale price of gasoline is set at the margin by the highest price paid to obtain gasoline imports. In other words, the price desired by the gasoline exporters sets the price within the US (that is when the US is at maximum refinery output). However those exporters shouldn’t be blamed for high gasoline prices either.

If the US didn’t build enough refineries, other countries could have. Someone protesting high gasoline prices should ask why other countries didn’t build refineries – and the answer has little to do with environmental issues (as least until recent years).
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby jedinvest » Fri 11 May 2007, 17:16:12

While not buying gasoline on one particular day seems like a worthless gesture, psychologically it can prove significant: People will make the connection between not buying gas and not using their motor vehicle as much. Otherwise, yes, it would be entirely useless.
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Re: NO GAS...On May 15th 2007

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 11 May 2007, 17:28:17

Boycott the stations one day & make a run on the bank the next! Perfect. :razz:
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