[rdberg1957]

Of course energy companies conspire to have monopolies over alternatives. Read Tom Whipple's recent article in Falls Church News about OPEC decisions not to boost production because of alternative fuels. IE Why should we invest if you're not going to use our product exclusively?

Now it is hard for me to decipher whether to take this at face value or if it is a cover for Saudi inability to raise production.

[matt21811]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')
Of course it will... so will deep-water clathrates, Tar Sand recovery, Shale strip-mining etc...

Everything we can think of...

And it will be comparatively expensive.

Heroically Expensive.

[Aaron]

Changes in volume pricing are seen in other sectors of the economy 2-4 years after the fact.

It can take that long for large contracts to expire, & this delays the cost increases impacting overall inflation.

That coupled with the very questionable official inflation/unemployment/deficit reports in the MSM & you're there.

[matt21811]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'C')hanges in volume pricing are seen in other sectors of the economy 2-4 years after the fact.

It can take that long for large contracts to expire, & this delays the cost increases impacting overall inflation.

That coupled with the very questionable official inflation/unemployment/deficit reports in the MSM & you're there.

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('matt21811', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'C')hanges in volume pricing are seen in other sectors of the economy 2-4 years after the fact.

It can take that long for large contracts to expire, & this delays the cost increases impacting overall inflation.

That coupled with the very questionable official inflation/unemployment/deficit reports in the MSM & you're there.

[matt21811]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')
The inflation impact of oil prices on the economy is an aggregate of the actual prices as they fluctuate over time.

Additionally, contract pricing delays the impact of higher prices by the length of the contracts.

Optimist reporting of inflation numbers is a common information management technique, similar to under-reporting actual unemployment numbers.

Your own dates show the impact of $70 oil isn't "due" yet.

And to suggest higher energy costs don't contribute significantly to overall inflation is absurd.

2% impact huh?

Do you work for Fox News by any chance?

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', '.')...
How many solar panels can you produce economically with electrical power from a windmill? IE without oil inputs in some form?
....

[matt21811]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', '.')...
How many solar panels can you produce economically with electrical power from a windmill? IE without oil inputs in some form?
....

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('matt21811', '.')..
Cube, can you answer my counter question?

"And if a solar panel displaces a ton of coal then thats two or three barrels freed up. How many solar panels can be made from 2 barrels of diesel? "

[matt21811]

I understand the argument fairly well. The argument centres around the idea that there is no replacement for the liquid fuel that comes from oil. I'm suggesting there is an alternative. That alternative is CTL.

You say that solar panels cannot be substituted for oil. I say that coal can be substituted for oil and solar panels can be substituted for coal.

In a sense, you can make solar panels from solar panels.

[peripato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('matt21811', 'I') understand the argument fairly well. The argument centres around the idea that there is no replacement for the liquid fuel that comes from oil. I'm suggesting there is an alternative. That alternative is CTL.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peripato', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('matt21811', 'I') understand the argument fairly well. The argument centres around the idea that there is no replacement for the liquid fuel that comes from oil. I'm suggesting there is an alternative. That alternative is CTL.

[PraiseDoom]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('matt21811', 'I') understand the argument fairly well. The argument centres around the idea that there is no replacement for the liquid fuel that comes from oil. I'm suggesting there is an alternative. That alternative is CTL.

You say that solar panels cannot be substituted for oil. I say that coal can be substituted for oil and solar panels can be substituted for coal.

In a sense, you can make solar panels from solar panels.

[coyote]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aflurry', 'L')ight rail is not an oil alternative, it is an automobile alternative.

[Aaron]

Simple deductive reasoning.

Let's see:

If oil's price has risen 300% over the last 2 years or so, & oil alternative technologies grew from 1% to 2% of total energy investing, in the same time period, what % price increase would oil need to achieve, for "alternatives" to reach 50% of the total energy budget?

14,400%

That's what... $576 per gallon of gas?

It's actually more complex than that of course, but you get the idea.

[PolestaR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JRP3', 'S')o I don't see alternatives allowing us to continue the current lifestyle at all, but I think the current lifestyle has so much waste built into it that there is a lot of room to cut back given the proper financial incentive, i.e. when you just cant afford it.

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('matt21811', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'C')hanges in volume pricing are seen in other sectors of the economy 2-4 years after the fact.

It can take that long for large contracts to expire, & this delays the cost increases impacting overall inflation.

That coupled with the very questionable official inflation/unemployment/deficit reports in the MSM & you're there.

[JRP3]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PolestaR', '
')I would say there is a lot of WASTE in the system too, but the waste is humans, as in, there are too many of them. Can't really solve any problem in isolation when you have 7 billion other ones dying to present themselves.

[matt21811]

Aaron, you link to an article that says poor people are poor.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', ' ')You were saying?

[Joe0Bloggs]

Your argument seems to imply that in the past, when we traded up to a higher quality fuel, the new fuel always stepped in and replaced use of the old fuel en masse even when the old fuel was at its lowest price--and undercut the price of the old fuel.

Otherwise, if the new fuel didn't make an impact until the old fuel had risen in price due to shortages, that would 'imply' that the new fuel was of lower quality than the old fuel, and hence would never be able to fuel civilization to a higher level than when the old fuel was in use.

Was this really the case in history? DID coal really replace wood while the price of wood was at its lowest? Ditto with oil over coal?