[MonteQuest]

These posts that suggest "years" of storage are rather dubious. It may seem fine, but it ain't.
Here's what Chevron says:Longer-Term Storage of Gasoline
Link
Fuel Degradation In Storage link

Gas Expiration - Ethanol Blend Fuels Have a Short Shelf Life link
And gas today is not the gas we knew 20 years ago.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')nergy Secretary Bodman said the idea of a strategic refinery reserve, akin to the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, "ought to be considered," but is a complex matter. "Gasoline has a limited shelf life," he said. "It begins to lose its performance characteristics after two to three months. And we also have about 15 types of gasoline … so which grade are you going to put in the reserve?"

[AirlinePilot]

There is about 3-5% ethanol right now in just about everything. I know because my Cessna can take auto gas. We (some Cesna 150 club members) have been looking at this all over the country lately because the lower lead content and the added ethanol is an issue for plug fouling and stuck valves in our engines. Most of us will no longer use the auto gas for these reasons. A lot og members hae been testing over the last 6 months and no one can find straight gasoline anymore, anywhere.

I believe that storing between 20-25 gallons for no longer than 3 months at a time should be no problem and thats what I plan on doing.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'T')here is about 3-5% ethanol right now in just about everything. I know because my Cessna can take auto gas. We (some Cesna 150 club members) have been looking at this all over the country lately because the lower lead content and the added ethanol is an issue for plug fouling and stuck valves in our engines. Most of us will no longer use the auto gas for these reasons. A lot og members hae been testing over the last 6 months and no one can find straight gasoline anymore, anywhere.

I believe that storing between 20-25 gallons for no longer than 3 months at a time should be no problem and thats what I plan on doing.

[Mechman]

For most people using a slowly leaking plastic container half full, you and Chevron are very correct but this is only for the general case. If you take the equipment, time and effort to do things better, you can store gasoline for years. The government thinks a SPR is a good idea and I think each of us should have one too. I have and continue to do so each year with my own small SPR but I store the finished products. Just get a 5 gallon metal Jerry can each year, add preservative, fill it almost full with gasoline, seal the bung down tight, check it after a few days to make sure it is pressurizing with no external leakage, store it in a cool dry place and try it one or two or three years later. Cost of the experiment is less than $50 and you will find out easily you can store gas for years successfully.

There is an excellent reference of "Gasoline FAQ" in 4 parts at if you want to study about gasoline issues: link

Gasoline is a witches brew of up to 400 different compounds but generally only 30 different compounds are in substantial mounts per specific SAE blend requirements based upon region and season (winter and summer). Most of these compounds are actually stable and effectively liquid "wax" or "solvents" at temperatures above -40C. As long as they don't escape, get exposed to UV light (impossible in a metal can), get heated to the point of thermal bond breaking, or oxidized by surplus air/oxygen, the gasoline will remain good and stable.

The biggest problem is people store gasoline in the wrong manner, not that gasoline cannot be stored. A good hermetic seal in a metal container will keep gasoline good almost forever like propane in a propane tank. The biggest problem is leaks and air/oxygen. Gasoline has a vapor pressure people usually don't expect, its low but it is there. The pressure builds up and if the container is not a hermetic pressure tank, the high pressure and high Octane compounds escape. If you can leak out under pressure, you can usually leak in air when you get a vacuum and then you get continual oxidation. This constant loss of high Octane compounds combined with new air intrusion will make your gas bad or "stale".
Store gasoline the right way and you can store it for years and years. Mess up and you better use it before it goes bad or you have to creatively get rid of it after it has gone bad. Just like preserving food.

Diesel is easier to store than gasoline, it has a very low vapor pressure so does not go bad by leaking away. However Diesel will oxidize so seal it in a vapor tight metal container and it has the added feature that it can "rot". Diesel is not toxic enough like gasoline to kill all bacteria. You have to add diesel "biocide" fuel preservative to diesel if you don't want it to possibly rot.

[kjmclark]

Check out this discussion on the same topic from a few weeks ago.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mechman', 'I') was concerned that Y2K might cause a few days of problems but nothing really big so I stored 1 weeks worth of gasoline, 25 gallons of high Octane in 5 new metal Jerry cans with standard amount of fuel preservative sealed air/vapor tight in July 1999. I never opened the cans until July 2005, six years later.

[vision-master]

P'boly a commuter that drives a large 4x4. Figure 25 gal would be good for 300 miles max. I used to commute 52 miles a day & that ain't jack. Many sheeple are doing this one-way.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'P')'boly a commuter that drives a large 4x4. Figure 25 gal would be good for 300 miles max. I used to commute 52 miles a day & that ain't jack. Many sheeple are doing this one-way.

[Newsseeker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'T')here is about 3-5% ethanol right now in just about everything. I know because my Cessna can take auto gas. We (some Cesna 150 club members) have been looking at this all over the country lately because the lower lead content and the added ethanol is an issue for plug fouling and stuck valves in our engines. Most of us will no longer use the auto gas for these reasons. A lot og members hae been testing over the last 6 months and no one can find straight gasoline anymore, anywhere. I believe that storing between 20-25 gallons for no longer than 3 months at a time should be no problem and thats what I plan on doing.

[Mechman]

jbeckton-Seems odd, just curious.
I will be honored to clarify this mystery because it all does have a very good explanation with more details.
>How do you use 25 gallons of gas a week? I usually did not use 25 gallons a week but the car I drove had a 23 gallon fuel tank and during a normal fill-up I would use about 21 gallons. I would typically fill my tank once every 2 weeks. If I bought 5 of the 5 gallon Jerry cans, I could fully fill my empty tank with a little left over in the 5th can, give it to a friend, help a neighbor, etc. Also during a crisis you actually use more fuel, not less, a nasty paradox (no fuel available and you have to use more to do the same driving tasks). Traffic jams, waiting in line and creeping along kills your fuel efficiency. Just like some of the people that tried to leave Houston, Texas to go to Austin during the hurricane evacuation and they found out after 12 hours of driving (normally the 170 mile trip takes only 2.5 hours), they were out of fuel and they were still not in Austin yet even when some of them started with full tanks and could have gone 400 miles in normal conditions.

>Do you drive a hummer 50 miles to work?
Nope, in 1999 I drove a BMW 735, 17 mpg city, 20 mpg typical, 25 mpg highway at 55mph about 10 miles to work but sometime I would a have to go about 200 miles every 2 weeks on business trips. You might notice from my sig I have been actively changing my ways for the last three years. I now drive a 3 cylinder manual 42 mpg city, 45 mpg typical, 48 mpg highway Geo Metro and use the 23 gallon tanks of my two BMW’s to store fuel along with my 55 gallon drums. If the local Fire Marshal will not let you store a 55 gallon drum of gasoline, get and park a big van, big truck, or use two cars and you can store that much fuel without any fuss. For Y2K, 25 gallons was fine for the risk, PO is huge and the effects long lasting, 25 gallons is not much but a good personal SPR start.

>Why high octane?
Because if there was any leakage, the 93 Octane gasoline might not degrade below the 87 Octane I needed. If you stored 87 Octane gasoline and it degraded to 81 Octane, your engine would probably not like you or the gasoline. If you stored 93 Octane and it degraded to 87 Octane, you would not have a problem. Many of the sources say you cannot store gasoline for very long, months, so if I was concerned about Y2K in July of 1999 I better store fuel in a way that it would still be good on January 1, 2000.

>Also why not use the gas for 6 years? Why didn't you use it when gas was $3.25/gal?
Actually I would still be storing it to continue the experiment today if it was not for a friend in need. My friend needed 4 of my 5 gallon Jerry cans to remove all the fuel from his car fuel tank so he could drop the tank safely for repairs. I used this as a excuse to drain the 6 year old gasoline from the 5 gallon Jerry cans into my BMW to see how it looked and how it worked. Did I have 25 gallons of green Goop? Was general knowledge and Chevron correct, months only, not years? I wanted to know so I stopped the experiment, used the 6 year old fuel which appeared to be in perfect condition and it worked without any problems for the full tank and no problems with future tanks of fuel. This was great! You can store fuel for years instead of months if you use sealed metal containers with preservative and keep them in a cool dry storage area. This gave me the confidence expand into more SPR like storage for longer times.


vision-master-P'boly a commuter that drives a large 4x4. Figure 25 gal would be good for 300 miles max. I used to commute 52 miles a day & that ain't jack. Many sheeple are doing this one-way.

Nope, just a BMW at the time (1999) and now (2007) a Geo Metro that uses the BMW’s, 5 gallon Jerry cans, and 55 gallon drums for external fuel storage. In Texas, if you have a car that gets 20 to 25mpg and you drive from Austin to Dallas, around the city and then back to Austin, you just blew through 20 gallons in a day. 25 gallons in 1999 would typically last about 2 weeks of driving around Austin, Texas. With my Metro and a new job (better pay) with less driving, the 25 gallons now in 2007 typically lasts about 4 to 6 weeks.

jbeckton-Seems like a lot of gas for someone on a PO board. I am by no means a doomer but I conserve as much as possible. I get about 45-50 mpg in my hybrid and only drive 5 miles to work and 5 back, no bike lanes on the bridges and no sidewalks most other places so I can't ride my bike. 25 gallons would last me over 4 months.

>Just a thought, instead of perfecting gas storage that will only last you a week at best, get a different car and store your "emergency gas" in your gas tank.

Absolutely jbeckton, Y2K to PO, BMW’s to Geo Metros, 5 gallon Jerry cans to 55 gallon drums. The threat of PO compared to Y2K is huge and I have seriously been changing everything in my life over the last 3 years. I still have years to go but I am moving as quickly as I can without a full crisis but with the understanding that a full crisis is now probably not avoidable in the next 1, 5 or 10 years. The risks continues to climb and my lifestyle much match the threats the best I can in my circumstances.

Get a “helmet” as soon as you can: financial, fuel storage, vehicle change, housing change, food storage, square foot gardens, permaculture, solar, rain catchment, etc. Personal “Armor” does not stop the attack, it will just hurt less. Preparing for PO will not stop PO or the related problems of PO but it will hurt less. Your actions will minimize the risk to you and yours.

Or you can chose not to change and self-elect to “take one” for the herd when things don’t work out well in the future. In a spiritual way, suffering is good for the soul and it helps one to focus on the blessings of the afterlife. Remember to not store gasoline for more than a few months and only small amounts, use the “Wrong Way“ to justify this general belief so you will not try to store gasoline so you can “take one”. Out of fuel events probably will not be life threatening but it will hurt or at least suck. Remember, you are building up your soul. Or you can do something, spend a little money, time, and effort and make at least a difference in your own life and maybe help someone else too.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mechman', 'j')beckton
>Seems odd, just curious.
I will be honored to clarify this mystery because it all does have a very good explanation with more details.
>How do you use 25 gallons of gas a week?
I usually did not use 25 gallons a week but the car I drove had a 23 gallon fuel tank and during a normal fill-up I would use about 21 gallons. I would typically fill my tank once every 2 weeks >Do you drive a hummer 50 miles to work?
Nope, in 1999 I drove a BMW 735, 17 mpg city, 20 mpg typical, 25 mpg highway at 55mph about 10 miles to work but sometime I would a have to go about 200 miles every 2 weeks on business trips.
>Why high octane?
Because if there was any leakage, the 93 Octane gasoline might not degrade below the 87 Octane I needed. If you stored 87 Octane gasoline and it degraded to 81 Octane, your engine would probably not like you or the gasoline.

[Newsseeker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', 'B')y the way, I have a Civic Hybrid and it has an auto stop engine so if you were stuck in 10 hour traffic you would not be wasting fuel when you were not moving (7 1/2 hours). Every time you come to a stop the engine shuts off automatically, then starts when you take your foot off the brake. Just something to consider if that is something that worries you.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newsseeker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', 'B')y the way, I have a Civic Hybrid and it has an auto stop engine so if you were stuck in 10 hour traffic you would not be wasting fuel when you were not moving (7 1/2 hours). Every time you come to a stop the engine shuts off automatically, then starts when you take your foot off the brake. Just something to consider if that is something that worries you.

[jbeckton]

Its a huge battery that assists the engine, not the little battery under the hood.

[Mechman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', 'T')hat makes sense if you were planning on the problems being "long term" (long enough for the octane to drop 6 points). I was under the impression that you only thought the problem was going to last a few days

[MonteQuest]

Some mod should split this thread after the 5th post.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mechman', 'T')he GAO report is bad news and people don’t generally like bad news even if it is real or just a risk.

[Newsseeker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', 'I')ts a huge battery that assists the engine, not the little battery under the hood.

[Mechman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', 'P')eople don't like it but it gets their attention and it usually gets good press, at least every time I watch the news I see 90% of the stories are about murder, crime, or corruption. Why does PO not get the attention that the people that get abducted by aliens for "experiments" get?