[Ludi]

I think a lot of it is a matter of perspective. When you look, PMS, you see fractured worldviews,; when I look, I'm amazed at how many people here I can actually communicate with and truly share valuable information. It's astonished me several times, that being here has been far from a futile effort for me.



Not that I personally expect to survive, of course. I've made that clear!

[Chaparral]

Collectives have always been the way to go when things turn to crap. That is why weak hairless apes have been able to come as far as they have. That is why I along with a half dozen of my ecovillage raiding buddies would be able to distract the lone-survivalist farmer, shoot his ass, shoot his wife's ass, and the kids and bury them in the muskeg with his D7 Cat after we take his goodies. That is why I'm not too keen on being a lone-survivalist farmer in a hard landing. Differing worldviews are merely a distraction. Those with differeing views so rigid that they can't adapt to, or at least function marginally, within my community are welcome to keep walking until they find one that suits them. Those who expect the rest of us to sit by and laugh while their dogs dig up our garden will be in for one rude fvcking surprise! Those who's hearts bleed for every tearful mom and little waif that shows up at the door had damn well better be able to care for them with little help from the rest of us. If they are allowed in, they WILL carry their weight. Those who dislike the idea that some of us may own a rusty old gun or keep our own little stack of silver dollars can put up or shut up. Those who are not THIS WORLD ORIENTED can hasten their way to the next and leave us alone.

Some of the collectives that are being discussed on and off the board here are not some sort of bullshit hippy-dippy communes with the dance in a bunny-circle love in. They are not exclusively about communism, altruism or sharing my expensive machine tools with an incompetent retard who'll ruin 'em in 5 minutes flat. They seem more like LLC or TIC operations where the members buy in with not insignificant amounts of cash and/or labor: They may end up more akin to a gated community with sustainable food and water security as anything else. Slackers may find the going harder then they anticipated in these communities. Some of those "ecovillages" may infact have the expertise and capital to send their hyphae into the surrounding communities at large and become helpful institutions in their own right as things progress. Those hyphae may solidify into a nice functional mycelium that may just cover entire watersheds, mountain ranges, counties, or who knows, even bioregions in some unpredictable future.

Historical contingency may render certainty impossible but one can still stack the odds in one's favor. PO preparedness is not now, and never has been about certainty. It is and always has been, and always will be, about probabilities. What I am doing is expected to increase the probability that ME and MINE will survive or even prosper the upcoming shitstorm regardless of what shape that shitstorm takes. MINE is what little there is of my family, and any like minded individuals who may join the project and contribute to its construction. The more of MINE that join, the better the survival chances of each individual ME.

[Stratovarius]

Futility is for the weak. Don't give in to PMS's "giving up" attitude. It's only futile when you start telling yourself that.

Don't invite this guy to the next inspirational speaking event!

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')ou know well what I'm talking about.

[WildRose]

I see. There are so many possible scenarios, depending on what all happens and where you live. I've only begun to do what I can. But I'm not quite sure which way to jump; I feel quite frozen at times. I think ecovillages can work, but that's such a huge step to take, to remove one's family from everything they know. I admire those who can do it. In the case of a real crisis situation in a large city, people would have to mostly be on the same page for there to be any sort of order. But how do you convince the majority of the people to live locally when, to the average person, there's no big problem on the horizon and they just expect everything to continue on as usual? I'm a fairly optimistic sort of person and I'm not afraid to work towards things. I just wish I had a crystal ball type of vision to show me exactly what we'll be up against here.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'I') just wish I had a crystal ball type of vision to show me exactly what we'll be up against here.

[eastbay]

PMS,

You've apparently been hitting the sauce too much lately and have slipped into needless, self-destructive, and unkind name-calling once again. It is so unnecessary to go through life with harsh thoughts in your mind and harsh and unkind words issuing forth from your keyboard. I think it's due to your sad state of mind and fruitless and ceaseless search to put an end to your unhappiness; always looking at the dark side and never the bright resulting in a lack of emotional balance. You don't need to be like that. There is a path away from this which could be the subject of another thread.

Re-read the discussion on that other thread while sober and you'll understand my remarks in reference to Dachau are quite mainstream and accepted by ALL academics and historians. They were NOT in reference to the Holocast in general.Go back and re-read. You'll be happier and hopefully regain a friendlier manner.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Eastbay, you've made it pretty plain, though in a coy way, what you think about the holocaust. It isn't a matter of name calling. But for the benefit of doubt, can you answer this in a straightforward manner: did the Nazis ship millions of unfortunate Jews to camps where they were separated, some to be gassed and some to be worked to death? We really could clear this up. Something tells me you would rather stay coy, but by all means, show me I'm wrong.

[eastbay]

And you PMS have made it clear how intolerant you are regarding those who are not in 100% agreement with your .15 BAC tempered narrow worldview.

Plus, using a small 'h' rather than a capital 'H' is very disrespectful. It's Holocast. You don't want to anger anyone... some otherwise good people are quite touchy about this topic.

So, back to futility... remember, we're a nation and world of great diversity. Not everyone holds the same perspective. As the crunch begins, anyone distributing personal anger and unkindness towards others will not last long. Getting along means maintaining a tolerance toward those who may differ from you in one or many ways. Survival in the post peak world will require a friendlier approach than what we often see keyboarded here, particularly when the only law enforcement will be whatever's within distance of someones knife or gun.

Futility? Maybe for those who refuse to accept diversity and are intolerant of those who aren't goose stepping perfectly to their narrow tunes. For the rest of us, survival will be possible and adversity will be overcome. Smile. Open up your heart and be ready to accept everyone. You don't have to burrow into dispair.

Every day I take a step closer to the light rather than a step closer to the darkness. Try it.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', ' ')Not everyone holds the same perspective.

[eastbay]

PMS,

I've always thought you were likeable too, but then again I get along with just about everyone.

Find something else to be bothered about my friend. And I don't answer to anyone, not since I left the department, so find someone else to quiz... lol. As I used to once in awhile say in an earlier life, 'I ask the questions around here.'

There is an entire world of injustice and inequality which needs to be addressed; particularly as we enter the harsh economic period ahead. Focusing self-destructive anger on one element of misunderstanding or disagreement with one person is meaningless and will gain you nothing other than increased unhappiness.

I'm investing these few minutes with you because I happen to like you, (no, not like that.... ) regardless of the periodic rants (which are part of your charm) and even though we've never met.

[PenultimateManStanding]

It was an honest question, Eastbay, and as we all can see, you chose not to answer it. Case closed.

[eastbay]

Sounds good.

And good night.

[leal]

Maybe this picture says it all:

[I_Like_Plants]

Ever check out the site that poster comes from? Hilarious!

That's one of the more encouraging ones actually......

[NEOPO]

Wait a minute please...how is this thread meant for the jews and the holocaust? Not my words
Do you mean the ever popular Jewish Holocaust or the Iraqi Genocide that is ongoing? or perhaps the little known Ukrainian Holomodor or the killing fields of Cambodia etc etc?

I am starting to believe that the cure for Apathy is death.

<leaves mumbling something about uneducated people and zionism>

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I') hear all these plans to survive the crisis when it comes. We all know it's coming. But there are so many obvious examples right here on this website that people have such fractured worldviews that nothing collective can really work. Ecovillage isn't going to work. Not with peakists, no way.

[Newsseeker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', '
')
I am starting to believe that the cure for Apathy is death.