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Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby Heineken » Mon 16 Apr 2007, 22:54:51

Elm is certainly horrible. It doesn't grow here, but I once had the miserable experience of splitting some Chinese elm. Also, it burns badly---slow and smoky.

It seems to me that seasoned wood would be more brittle than green wood and therefore split more easily. Maybe it depends on the species.

I'll sadly resort to a power splitter when I can no longer do it by hand, a time hopefully still far off.
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby kaktus » Tue 17 Apr 2007, 13:50:51

I visited my sister's afew weeks ago. they have bought an old house and had just thrown out the oil burner in the basement and replaced it with a wood burner with a big water tank to store the warmth. from there water is heated that circulates in the floors of the house and gives a very nice climate. also the tap water is heated by the same stove.
it was a really brilliant set up.

also they get their wood of their 40000 sq meter land...
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby Heineken » Thu 19 Apr 2007, 13:26:42

I split with a 6-pound maul. I also have an 8-pound maul, but it's just too heavy to wield efficiently.

I have a beautiful ax someone gave me once, but it's probably my most useless tool . . . for now, anyway.
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby benzoil » Thu 19 Apr 2007, 13:43:27

This fall I will be gutting and finishing the old summer kitchen on my farmhouse. Since it was the summer kitchen it has zero heat, but a nice chimney in good condition. The chimney is set up for a wood stove, but I don't have one.

Before I spend hours doing research on the net, does anyone have any good/bad things to look for? Auction season is starting around here and I might pick a used one up if I find one that looks good.
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby benzoil » Fri 20 Apr 2007, 02:43:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', '
') What is the size of the area? How well unsulated?


About a 130 sq. feet with a high (12' - 14') ceiling. R-30 or higher in the floor and ceiling. Walls won't be quite as insulated, but will be lined with books. The whole first floor is probably about 1000-1100 sq ft. (8' ceilings) with R-values all over the map currently.

BTW, those Jotuls look nice.
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby kaktus » Fri 20 Apr 2007, 06:11:47

My (limited) experience is that its important not to choose a to big/powerful stove, because then you cant burn on full and when you try to keep the fire slow (I dont know the word in English) you get a lot of tar and smoke.
Also I'm very fond of the ones made in soapstone(?), perhaps that is mainly popular in Scandinavia? and if not used most of the year I suppose they're a waist of money. They give a very nice warmth though and store a lot of heat, simply by mass but nowadays some have a fan. They need a strong floor.

Example : http://www.jotul.se/content/products/Pr ... __439.aspx
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby benzoil » Fri 20 Apr 2007, 08:32:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kaktus', 'M')y (limited) experience is that its important not to choose a to big/powerful stove, because then you cant burn on full and when you try to keep the fire slow (I dont know the word in English) you get a lot of tar and smoke.



I wondered about that. My original plan was to heat the one room with the stove for now, but move it into the main living area (2nd chimney) if electricity for the outdoor wood furnace ever got to be a problem. Sounds like I don't want to buy too much bigger than my current needs though...
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby Heineken » Fri 20 Apr 2007, 12:44:02

I agree with katkus. Too much heat is probably worse than not enough heat.

I live in a 700-square-foot apartment over a barnlike garage. My only heat source is a beefy 1980s-era Englander woodstove with one of those stupid catalytic combusters. It throws far too much heat for this space, except on the coldest nights (down around 5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit). Most of the winter I keep my windows partly open---which is a good thing in some ways; the air is fresher, and the danger of carbon monoxide poisoning is eliminated.

I constructed a sliding "hatch" in the ceiling with a dangling cord that I can use to open and close it; excess heat is thus vented up into the attic. This little invention, along with the windows, gives me very fine control of the temperature in the apartment, although I have to make lots of adjustments during the day.

Even with all that, I still tend to run the stove too low.

One of these days I'll replace the stove with a smaller one, but for now I'm feeling too cheap. Even those cute little Jotuls cost plenty!
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby Pops » Fri 20 Apr 2007, 14:34:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kaktus', 'T')hey give a very nice warmth though and store a lot of heat, simply by mass but nowadays some have a fan.


It all comes down to insulation and mass.

A person can gain a surprising amount of mass simply by adding a layer of drywall, a tile or stone floor covering or even decorative items filled with chlorine treated water - doubling as water storage. By the stove we have a big covered crock, crockery jug and butter churn filled with water, two layers of 5/8 drywall and lots of tile over cement board .

When the fire gets too hot, turn on the ceiling fan and your disguised heat sinks suck up the excess heat to be released later – works in reverse in the summer.
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby kaktus » Mon 23 Apr 2007, 12:41:18

benzoil wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')y original plan was to heat the one room with the stove for now


Then I suppose you need a stove that is suited for that room. If you use it all day long you want to get into the routine of loading it full with wood - leave it for some hours - load it full ..., and you dont want the room to get to hot when it peaks(!). you can of course vetilate the heat but you dont want to spend so much time carrying wood. a big stove wants to have big fire.
I suppose Heineken dont want to throw out an old darling.:) its easy to get attached to them.
perhaps you need to find a store with staff that know what you should have when you tell them the layout and the type of house you have. there are a lot of nice not so pricey pieces now with big glasses so you can see the flames.

for the ones interested in ancient stoves: the Swedish ceramic stove, invented in the 18th century and still outstanding. the smoke travels a labyrinth to heat the massive stove.
Images: http://www.kakelugnsmagasinet.nu/
http://www.dataphone.se/~ncteknik/We_ar ... stove.html
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby kaktus » Mon 23 Apr 2007, 12:56:44

PS you also need to make sure about the chimney (you may know these things, I dont). It may need to get fixed. How is the capacity.

-kaktus
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wood pellets resource

Unread postby mushroompro » Sun 05 Aug 2007, 16:10:05

Fredrik,

I was surfing the Internet  and I found this resource  european wood pellets

They have  Biofuel related information Pellet Market Reviews


They discuss renewable energy oppotunities.
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Re: wood pellets resource

Unread postby Fredrik » Sun 19 Aug 2007, 16:03:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mushroompro', 'F')redrik,

I was surfing the Internet and I found this resource european wood pellets

They have Biofuel related information Pellet Market Reviews


Thanks, added that one to my assorted bookmarks.

In the future, even pellets may become a "luxury" product, since it takes a considerable amount of energy to manufacture them from raw wood, if they're no longer easily available as a by-product of paper industry. In many instances (like central heating plants) it could be more cost-effective just to burn logs.
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby kaktus » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 07:31:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n the future, even pellets may become a "luxury" product


Yes that's a big question. I've done some reading. The cost of transport isnt very big it seems, out of the total. Already today a lot is transported from Canada to Europe for example which shows that new patterns of trade are developing. Also when this industry grows the price will hopefully get more stable since you can easier even out termporary shortages in specific markets.
I suppose logs will be possible first for the very big and the very small users.
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby mistel » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 22:23:07

I just wanted to add my two cents.

If you cut a tree down for firewood, let it lay on the ground for a few weeks before you cut the branches off. The leaves will continue to transpire water out of them, so your wood needs less time to dry.

About axes, I find that a smaller axe that you can swing faster is better. I use this one

http://www.fiskars.com/webapp/wcs/store ... ctId=10529

I think you can get them at Home Depot.
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby Pops » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 22:46:25

I didn’t read the 66 posts to this thread mainly because there are over 300 posts and more than 70,000 views to the 2 threads of [Shelter] Heat .. in the Planning forum.

Is there something we are doing wrong that folks can’t find this stuff or is it just the title Energy Technology that makes it cool?

[Shelter] Heat- Wood is here:
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic2835.html
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby Pops » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 23:33:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'P')ops - I'm not sure I get your point. Is your point that no thread can ever retread over previously covered ground?

Retread all you want, in as many forums and as many threads as you feel the desire; really, this topic could go in most any forum here.

My idea was simply to have one place on this site to find info on things one might do to prepare instead of a bunch of sidetracked, redundant dead ends containing a few pearls each.

Silly I know…
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Wood as an auxiliary energy source

Unread postby JRP3 » Wed 22 Aug 2007, 00:32:03

I've been using this to split:
http://www.chopperaxe.com/whatis.htm
It really does explode the wood apart, unless it's really big and knotty, then it may take a few blows, or wedges and a sledge. But most of the time I can do it all with one blow of the chopper. Make sure there's nothing on either side of you when you use it, smaller pieces WILL fly 6 feet or more to each side when you split.
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