[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'B')atteries for the model I have, which is about $1,000, are separate. However they do make a battery free refrigerator, which is smaller and more expensive:

http://www.solarquest.com/products/refrigerators/

[DarkDawg]

gnm thanks. I'm sizing PV systems now and am factoring costs of everything I might run off-grid both AC and DC equipment. Haven''t decided on anything yet, just gettin' info.

[Ludi]

We don't use AC in our house in Central Texas, only in the office and the shop when we're working, so, in other words, we only use it to make money. We have a modern house, but it is of an old-fashioned floorplan, with two storeys. We're slowly making changes to improve airflow and block heat gain. Our west windows are shaded by awnings, and we plan to build a veranda on the south side and eventually, we hope, on at least part of the west side, or replace the large windows on that front with much smaller and preferably, thermal windows.

Eventually I plan (hope) to have a small PV array to run possibly a tiny fridge, a few lights, and a couple fans. Those would be nice, but a bit of a luxury.

We heat the home with wood, except for a little electric heat in the bathroom while showering. In a low-energy future, we would probably bath in a tub downstairs near the woodstove, or carry hot water to spongebathe upstairs, if we don't have solar water heating capacity. Bathing would be the main inconvenience during the winter.

[strider3700]

Up here the effects of a power outage are really going to depend on the time of year. I can't remember losing power in the middle of summer so I'll mostly comment on winter. We've lost power for a reasonable amount of time 3 times so far this winter. The shortest was 10 hours the longest was just shy of 48 hours.

All 3 times we found out the power was out as we got home from work at dinner time.

First thing we noticed was the dark.

Having lights stored somewhere near the door that can be easily and quickly accessed really helped. being forced to track down anything that "may" be somewhere in that back closet would be a nightmare without light.

We just reached went into the bottom of the cabinet right beside the front door and grabbed the battery powered camping lantern and spotlight. One or the other is always in there and supposed to be charged and ready to go. Once we have that first source of light we dig out the oil lamps and tea lights. 1 lamp in the kitchen 1 in the living room. 1 Tea light in glass holders in every other room that we may access (bathroom, bedroom). THat will give you enough light to move around in safely.

Next think I find is the house is cold.

No power means no electric heat obviously. The first time this happened we put on extra clothes and went to bed early. The second time we had finally got the woodstove installed so I started lighting it. Here's where you want to have some wood and kindling sitting inside and ready to go before hand. It would suck going out and needing to split wood by lantern light while in the middle of a wind/rain/snow storm. Having matches out and always in the same spot to light the stove also came in handy when we got those candles and lamps going. Once the stove is going you've got light and heat.

By now you're getting hungry.

If power is likely to be out at home and we're still in town we always stop and grab some fast food and have it for dinner when we get home. It's important to be carrying a little bit of cash because the phone lines for interac/credit can go down even without losing power. Cooking without power is a pain in the but when you have an electric range. The 1 time we had to cook at home without power we had a few choices. The BBQ but it has to be used outside and it's nasty out there usually if the power is out. The woodstove but it's kinda hard to cook on. Temperature control leaves a lot to be desired. Or the camping cook stove. We set this up on the kitchen table and crank the windows in there wide open. A carbon monoxide detector should be used but go figure mine plugs into the wall and doesn't have battery backup... Cooking like this is slow and tedious. Heat and eat meals go a long way in these conditions. Anything involving defrosting and prep work will take hours to make. We had toast and beans.

After dinner you want to wash everything up.

Depending on your town you will lose water pressure sooner or later. Since I'm on a spring system I lose it after 1 toilet flush. So I have to switch from the pressure pump and filtration system to running directly from the spring via gravity feed. I'm lucky that I can do this. During the summer I'd be worried about drinking unfiltered water from an open ground source spring. During the winter I don't worry about it. Once I flip that over I've got 1 hotwater tanks worth of hot water to clean with. Hopefully you've been keeping up with your dishes and don't have a lot to get done. I could always heat water on the woodstove but thats a time consuming thing.

You'll start to get bored.

If you're anything like me you're an info junkie that always has the internet the TV or both active in the background. Without either I got real bored real quick. Board games are cool if you have someone else to play with but there aren't many games out there for just 2 that the wife likes to play. A couple of hours of this and you get tired of them. I tried reading but in order to get enough light to not hurt my eyes I was using both oil lamps as high as they could go. a half weeks worth of oil went up in 3 hours. The first time the power dropped I got out the battery powered radio. I then discovered that I didn't know which stations where local to get local news. The big stations just talked about the storm and power being out in there town in between songs. Thats if they wheren't just a tape looping through the night. They never mentioned detailed info for us. By the second storm I had printed off a list of all the radio stations in our area and their names. By the third storm I had highlighted which stations had useful info and where worth listening to. These lists are now taped to the back of the radio.

The next day you'll have a warm fridge.

The first time we lost power this wasn't an issue. The house got cold and the fridge stayed cool the freezer stayed frozen. The outside freezer was fine. Once the woodstove was installed though the house gets nice and toasty and you need to move food around to keep it cool.

Really with the last outage we did pretty good. My major complaints at this point would fall under organization. My shop is a disaster so needing to go in there and find something by lantern light was a painful process. We also don't have enough variety in our heat and eat meals. Long term I'd like some alternative method of running the fridge and freezer. Noone near me ran a generator any of those times so a noisy generator would just make me a target. Everyone had candles by the second time so that wasn't a big worry.

Really long term and widespread outages would create different issues.
In case we eventually need to go grocery shopping we keep cash in the safe. I haven't got anything other then the bathtub to wash clothes in but could go a month before I'm right out of stuff to wear.
We keep some gas on hand but thats only 1 vehicles worth (roughly 500 km) Having more would be nice but being the last person in the neighbourhood driving is a bad idea.
Bathing would involve water heated on the woodstove.

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', ' ') The house I'm in now was built in 1892. Even though it needs some maintenance work it's still at least 10 degrees cooler in summer with the AC off - not to say we don't use the AC; we do.

[pip]

Good topic. I live in very rural Texas panhandle. We had an ice storm over New Year’s that did a lot of damage to the power lines. Some of the small towns were out of power for 2-3 days. The power companies repair lines to the towns and cities before moving on to the country folk. My house had no power for 10 days. We ran a generator during the day to keep the freezers and refrigerators cold. We heat with a corn stove which uses a small amount of power, ~200 watts. We ran the corn stove during the day and then at night off of 3 car batteries and an inverter. Needless to say, this was not a pleasant experience.

Things I would be prepared for in the future:
Water – Our well has a 220V pump which required a generator that will make 220V to work. Said generator was using 5 gallons of gas a day operating less than half the day. This will not work long term. I plan to install a solar water pump that pumps to an elevated storage tank.

Electricity – You’ve got to have the refrigeration going. It was interesting though that the food in my freezers was still very much frozen after 4 days with no power. Just keep them closed. I’ve looked into a solar system that would provide enough power to keep a fridge, a freezer, and a couple lights going. The cost was about $11,000 for panels, batteries and inverter.

Heat – Keeping the corn stove going was somewhat of a pain, even though it doesn’t use much electricity. I think I would rather have a wood stove. My only reservation is that trees are in short supply in my part of the world and corn is not. Solar panels may be a better idea.

Light – Decorative candles don’t last very long. I plan to really stock up on the long burning variety along with lamp oil and lamp wicks. You couldn’t find any of these items anywhere when we needed them.

[Newsseeker]

Outside of PO circles there was hardly any mention made of the GAO report, something more significant than global warming. Amazing as this is here in the US it has also been true in Canada.
What GAO Peak Oil report? link
What do you think are the reasons for the GAO report not getting more media coverage?

[Twilight]

It didn't say anything that editors haven't seen before. Peak Oil isn't newsworthy the same way climate change wasn't in the early 90s. People talking isn't news. It will be news when it causes physical destruction and starts killing people.

[shortonoil]

My take on this is that if the American people knew what a critical situation we are presently in ( see: pup55’s latest Weekly US Petroleum and NG Supply Reports) there would be a run on gasoline supplies and hoarding. This would, of course, assure even larger shortages than we may otherwise witness. Expect rationing or some kind of reaction by the government if the situation continues to deteriorate

[killJOY]

All this "looking the other way" for a report many of us found tepid and limp? How odd. Part of my "doomer" outlook never really "took" emotionally. I suspected it was all a sort of debauched intellectuality. And yet, here are my fears, seeming to arrive, like chickens to the roost. I still can scarcely believe it. But look -- it's happening. Apparently. We'll see. 2007 was the year I dreaded.

[Newsseeker]

I think you guys are right. Once demand completely outstrips supply and there are bad effects on the economy combined with rationing for gas stations then, and only then, will PO truly hit the mainstream. By then, of course, it will be too late.

[AirlinePilot]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', 'M')y take on this is that if the American people knew what a critical situation we are presently in ( see: pup55’s latest Weekly US Petroleum and NG Supply Reports) there would be a run on gasoline supplies and hoarding. This would, of course, assure even larger shortages than we may otherwise witness. Expect rationing or some kind of reaction by the government if the situation continues to deteriorate

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', '.')..Anyone have any tips on storing fuel??

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', '.')..Anyone have any tips on storing fuel??

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'F')or example: Does unleaded regular have a shelf life?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', '.')..Anyone have any tips on storing fuel??

[Mechman]

Hello, I have some experience in storing gas the classic wrong way and also a proven right way.
The Wrong Way: Any open or self venting tank or container, Plastic gas cans for more than a few months even if they appear to seal well. Use no fuel preservative. Store the container not full.
Results of the Wrong Way: The high vapor pressure volatiles will go away, the gasoline Octane number will drop, the gasoline will also oxidize and turn into gum and varnish. You can save (reuse) gasoline that has gone bad by mixing small quantities with large quantities of high Octane gasoline. Or you can use the bad gasoline as a cleaning or degreasing agent, or to start outdoor wood fires etc. Bad gasoline is effectively gummy green or yellow kerosene. If your lucky the non-full container will just lose Octane, if your not lucky the non-full container will vent during the hot day and then the container reseals and implodes and cracks open during the night. The gasoline vapors push out most of the air but when the vapors get cold they recondense into liquid and create a high vacuum in the vapor space that crushes the container. I have seen even 2 of my own good metal 5 gallon Jerry cans get badly damaged by this crushing powerful vacuum.

The Right Way: A good condition car fuel tank or a military style 5 gallon Jerry can that seals fully air/vapor tight. Fill the can very near full but always allow some air and vapor volume, like 1% or 2% air space to gasoline. Always use fuel preservative you can get at any Academy, Home Depot or Lowe’s, etc. When you take out the gasoline, taken it all out and transfer to smaller fully filled containers. Remember to allow the empty gasoline cans to vent or they will get crushed (see above).

I was concerned that Y2K might cause a few days of problems but nothing really big so I stored 1 weeks worth of gasoline, 25 gallons of high Octane in 5 new metal Jerry cans with standard amount of fuel preservative sealed air/vapor tight in July 1999. I never opened the cans until July 2005, six years later. The fuel level in the cans did not drop, an excellent indication that nothing escaped or evaporated. The fuel color was the same color as new fuel, clear with a florescent blue yellow tint. The fuel worked perfectly. I now have rural land and I store my gasoline the same way in 55 gallon industrial steel drums and I have sufficient empty 5 gallon metal Jerry cans to store the fuel out of the 55 gallon drums as I open them. 55 gallon drums are cheap compared to the metal Jerry cans for bulk storage but many residential areas and the fire marshals will not let you store that much, usually only 5 to 25 gallons. Always have a stock of good condition metal Jerry cans if you have a 55 gallon drum or not. 55 gallon drums are very heavy and cannot be moved easily (good and bad). 5 gallon Jerry cans are fairly easy to move but can be sold, traded or stolen (good and bad).

[AirlinePilot]

I was thinking of getting 3 or 4 5 gallon Jerry cans of the plastic variety. Store it in my gagrage. I'm only concerned with the short term really. Its not for any long term problems. Basically I will save some and rotate it every two months or so. Burn it and go get some more if required.

Its probably plenty to get you through a few days to a weeks worth of shortage for two cars.

I think we have a good few days advantage in here with the reports and the expertise looking at what is really going on so I feel pretty comfortable doing this. Is it neccesary for me to put in stabilizer If Im only going to store for a few months like this??

[vision-master]

I've stored gas for a year in WWII jeep cans with no problems. I have some of those plastic ones too. Good to know about gas shelf with them.

Right now I've got about 40 gal put away to hold me over for awhile.

My dad would store gas in them WWII cans for years to use for outboard motors. Never had problems with the fuel.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', '.')..Anyone have any tips on storing fuel??