[cynicalheretic]

What is the communities opinion of the fair tax. Please keep all the doom and gloom crap out of your post. I just want honest opinions regarding this.

[max_power29]

There is no such thing as a fair tax. Confiscating money is not fair.

[DesertBear2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('max_power29', 'T')here is no such thing as a fair tax. Confiscating money is not fair.

[Kingcoal]

The fair tax has already been thought of:

US Constitution, Section 9 - Limits on Congress

No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

The property taxes on my home conform to the above.

[cynicalheretic]

This is what I was actually referring to. I was a little to tired last night to post the link and info Fair Tax

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality, and, through companion legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment.

The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 1025) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.

The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system.

The FairTax:

Abolishes the IRS
Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding

Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
Allows American products to compete fairly
Reimburses the tax on purchases of basic necessities
Enables retirees to keep their entire pension
Enables workers to keep their entire paycheck

[jdmartin]

I would love to see tax reform. I don't believe it's ever gonna happen. Too many people making a buck off the current system, really. Think of all the corporate welfare that would go away. Think of all the people who've come up with a billion deductions to keep from paying any tax at all.

Besides, a national sales tax would necessarily be so high to make up for the loss of all the other tax revenues that people would be having a heart attack that milk now costs 10 bucks a gallon instead of 3, for example.

Most of what the Feds do these days they don't have any business doing, anyway, according to our Federal system that rests all powers not specifically given to the Fed with the states. Either we need to do away with states, since they're damn pointless anymore, or we need to seriously scale back the Feds and let the states have a bigger role. If we did either, we could reduce our taxation burden significantly. Our tax burden is always touted as lower than Western Europe, for example, but there's a lot of factors left out, and the services that we receive for our taxes are an embarassment for the most part.

Personally, I think the only Fed tax reform that may ever have a chance of passing is a flat-tax income tax. Exempt the first $30k (for example) for every filing unit as necessary for basic existence, and tax everything beyond that $30k at 15%. Poor people won't pay anything, middle class will pay some, richer will pay a lot more, but everyone will pay 15% beyond that which is required for living. If you really wanted to get into it, you could alter it based on geographic costs, or you could let the free market determine where people lived based on salaries and housing costs...there would be no tax forms to fill out, because everything could be done right off the top through payroll calculation (ie your employer wouldn't tax the first $30k), or if there were forms to fill out it could be done on a one page deal.

[careinke]

I am, and have been a strong supporter of the Fair Tax. It is the only viable option on the table that: Taxes consumption not income, untaxes the poor, is much simpler than the current system, encourages savings, encourages recycling, and complies with the US constitution. So obviously it will never happen. I keep the faith because at one time they said women and blacks would never get the vote, but eventually they did.

The two parts of the Fair Tax proposal I would like to change are: 1. Not tax new services, (Just tax new products). 2. Make SS payments standard for everyone (eliminates the government from having to track your wages).

Cliff (Start a revolution, grow a garden)

[strider3700]

I'd love anything that taxes consumption instead of income. Of course I currently get taxed on income and consumption and sometimes get to pay tax on tax on tax depending on what I buy. 25% straight to incoming tax and 13.5% on what I buy never mind the embedded taxes in the price on things like gas.

Of course the government will never do this. The only way out is to not make anything and not buy anything. It's damn hard to do.

[wxman]

If the fair tax were implemented, this is what I think would happen:

1) Despite people receiving more money, there would be a "sticker shock" at the prices of goods. Consumption of new items would decrease, while recycling and demand for used goods would skyrocket. This would be great for the environment and slow our energy problems, but would be catastrophic for the economy.

2) Black markets would pop up instantaneously. If you think the "war on drugs" is a complete failure, this would be completely insane.

[Tyler_JC]

My only problem with the fair tax is that it forces New Hampshire and other sales tax free states to create a sales tax.

This would require the creation of a bureaucracy to administer the tax.

I suggest giving a one time block grant to the current sales tax free states in order to pay for this bureaucracy.

Remember, you are also compensating them for a sudden drop in competitive edge against their sales taxing neighbors.

[Pretorian]

As someone stated before there is no such thing as fair tax. One will always get less of public services than he paid for, no matter how you dance around it.

[careinke]

Under HR/SR 25 "The Fair Tax" States and the merchants are compensated for their efforts in collecting the tax.

Cliff (Start a revolution, grow a garden)

[max_power29]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DesertBear2', '
')
If the taxes money is used for stupid or dangerous policies we naturally resent it ie building a global empire, continuous warfare, misdirected highway projects, funding for corrupt initiatives like the Prescription Drug Program, welfare for corporate giants like Archer Daniels Midland etc. It is the overall corruption of the USA that makes people unwilling to pay taxes except under duress.

If the tax money is used in efficient and useful works, it can be a good thing ie rebuilding the rail system, libraries, parks, good alternative energy programs, affordable housing initiatives, etc.

[The_Toecutter]

Idealism does have its applications when it comes to considering other possibilities. You have to have both idealism and realism to change the status quo with a pragmatic solution. One or the other by itself leads to disaster.

[Newsseeker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wxman', 'I')f the fair tax were implemented, this is what I think would happen:

1) Despite people receiving more money, there would be a "sticker shock" at the prices of goods. Consumption of new items would decrease, while recycling and demand for used goods would skyrocket. This would be great for the environment and slow our energy problems, but would be catastrophic for the economy.

2) Black markets would pop up instantaneously. If you think the "war on drugs" is a complete failure, this would be completely insane.

[holmes]

consumption tax is what I want. But I will take any tax that will collapse the marxist/corporate welfare state. Take away their hand outs. Watch them run around like chickens with their heads cut off. better be armed to the teeth tho. The masses dont want any of the gravy to run out. They get violent and nasty.

[Tyler_JC]

Black market you say?

What about the hundreds of billions of dollars that does uncollected every year?

You would need to have a black market of at least $1.26 trillion in order to match the current tax gap with the income tax system.

Using the estimated figure of a $290 billion tax gap. But that figure is probably higher.

It's much easier to track ~20 million businesses than ~130 million individual tax payers.

Plus, no individual would have to worry about a tax audit.

[holmes]

I say bring it on! If you can pay for what you want you get it. If you cant than be prepared to be removed from the gene pool. Ill sacrifice and accept a flat tax as well. Consumption tax is good tho. I dont mind paying taxes for what I use. I use very little. Ill pay for the roads becuase i use them from time to time. I will pay extra for fresh produce and bulk foods. I have issues with paying for the Mall tax type stuff. i do not use much of what my taxes go to. Thats a travesty.

[holmes]

I also have no problem paying taxes that go into building our railroads again. Not a problem at all. however redistributing to humanoids and corporations that use slave labor and produce plastic cheap baubles no way. its tormenting.

[katkinkate]

Hmm, sounds like the goods and services tax (GST) our government introduced several years ago. They said it would replace various other taxes and the net tax burden would be nil, but after it was introduced, the other taxes stayed and now we have all the State-based taxes, GST and the income tax as well.

The only saving grace is that basic foods and a few other things are exempt so if you shop smart you don't have to pay too much.