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Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Discuss research and forecasts regarding hydrocarbon depletion.

Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby UncoveringTruths » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 10:03:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')ecline curves graphically depict the rates at which oil and gas well production levels fall -- or plummet -- over time. They may also illustrate how unlikely it is that the world's oil producers will be able to meet the expected increases in global demand. Energy giant ExxonMobil (NYSE: XOM) and the Energy Information Administration arm of the U.S. Department of Energy are just two of the many entities that have studied this important question.

These prognosticators generally agree that total crude oil production -- which currently averages nearly 85 million barrels daily -- will need to reach about 120 million barrels per day, or more than 40% above the current rate, by the year 2030. This is largely because of rapidly escalating energy usage in the world's developing nations, such as China and India. Any significant shortfall in meeting that projected level could have dire consequences, including a meaningful decline in your quality of life and heightened hostilities among nations.

Unfortunately, those whose knowledge of energy ends at the gasoline pump often believe that meeting higher energy demand simply involves drilling a few new wells. However, as The Wall Street Journal indicated in an excellent article last week, the decline rates of many of the world's largest oil fields appear to be escalating, meaning that more and more energy producers will need to run faster and faster just to keep up with current production levels, let alone achieve any sort of significant production increases.


Dangerous Curves Ahead

Wow! Went through the whole exercise of writing/reporting this without saying Peak Oil.
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby benzoil » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 11:06:24

Interesting. My guess is that opinion (aka "Conventional Wisdom") is starting to shift. You can't *say* Peak Oil because then you're a fringe nut loonie. Those Peak Oilers are nut jobs with their gloomy outlook for consumption-based society blah blah, etc.

BUT, people are starting to look at the actual science and realize that PO by any other name smells as rank. They'll avoid using the term for some time, however. They don't want to be identified with the fringe, even if the fringe looked at the actual science sometime back and came to the same conclusion.

This is part of the dialectic of change. I'd say its welcome.

Aside: Hello fellow fringe nut loonies!
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby Zardoz » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 11:18:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', 'T')his is part of the dialectic of change. I'd say its welcome.

Aside: Hello fellow fringe nut loonies!

Yes, it seems to be starting to happen now. This change in public discourse needs some sort of name. Maybe we can call it "The Great Pulling of Heads Out of Butts" or something.
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby mmasters » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 11:22:23

I'm not sure it's conventional wisdom shifting. They could be slowly preparing to propagandize PO to the general public.
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby benzoil » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 11:42:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'I')'m not sure it's conventional wisdom shifting. They could be slowly preparing to propagandize PO to the general public.


I dunno. I think you're giving "them" way too much credit. Assuming that you're right, however, the end result would theoretically be the same would it not? Conventional wisdom finally shifts to "we'll worry about that in 30 years" to "the government should worry about this now". This will result in a series of misguided attempts at mitigation that (hopefully) lead to some useful ideas in 20 years time.

In the meantime, you'll get to hear the same talking heads on CNBC talking about "paradigm shifts".
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby Heading_for_the_hills » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 12:03:22

Did I miss something? I have been following the Motley Fool for years in the Washington Post. They are not concerned with educating the public on Peak Oil. They are recommending investing in the big 3 Oil Companies, ConocoPhillips, ExxonMobil and Chevron, as well as......
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') hope these concerns will lead Foolish investors to pay careful attention to the vital energy sector. My favorite names for consideration include the three international producers mentioned above, along with big oilfield service companies Schlumberger (NYSE: SLB) and Halliburton (NYSE: HAL).


Ladies and Gentlemen, it can't get any better than this, can it???

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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby mmasters » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 12:16:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'I')'m not sure it's conventional wisdom shifting. They could be slowly preparing to propagandize PO to the general public.


I dunno. I think you're giving "them" way too much credit. Assuming that you're right, however, the end result would theoretically be the same would it not? Conventional wisdom finally shifts to "we'll worry about that in 30 years" to "the government should worry about this now". This will result in a series of misguided attempts at mitigation that (hopefully) lead to some useful ideas in 20 years time.


I'm not giving them too much credit in any way. Something has to stop unrestrained globalization from gobbling up the entire resource base. Propagandizing peak oil would be a profitable way of stopping it.
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby UncoveringTruths » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 12:43:10

Missed that blip in there.
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby benzoil » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 12:46:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', ' ')Something has to stop unrestrained globalization from gobbling up the entire resource base. Propagandizing peak oil would be a profitable way of stopping it.


Amen brother. I'm not sure that they can profitize "deconsumption", but that would definitely be the least painful way out.

As for the Motley Fool, they're a pretty well respected Do-It-Yourself investment site. They made a lot more noise in the big Bull market of the dot.com era, but they're still around and still have decent things to say about investing. Namely, that if you take even a little time to do your own research, you can beat 90% of the mutual funds out there.

I'm not sure that investing in the big multinationals is a great idea, since I suspect that they'll get legislated into oblivion, slammed with nationalization, and otherwise end up spending tons of money on exploration and R&D. Disclaimer: I have next to nothing invested in the market, so don't trust me with your nest egg!
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby Eli » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 13:04:24

True growth will not be able to happen after PO,which we have already passed.

What you will see is pseudo growth through acquisition. Those in power will remain in power because they will be able to buy other companies at fire sale rates on the downward slope. The little fish will die off and be swallowed up by the big fish.

The deck is already stacked in the favor of the big corporations which as we know are already getting becoming global. There will be virtually no way smaller companies will be able to compete. It will become a complete fantasy to think that some one can come along with a better idea and make it.
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby mmasters » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 14:02:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'T')rue growth will not be able to happen after PO,which we have already passed.

What you will see is pseudo growth through acquisition. Those in power will remain in power because they will be able to buy other companies at fire sale rates on the downward slope. The little fish will die off and be swallowed up by the big fish.

Oh yeah, global consolidation of power.

I have to wonder like in NYC all these mom and pop resturants and shops. Get the sheep out of their positivism trance the liquidity froth disappears. Few of these places will survive it. It's all so delicate at this point.
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby careinke » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 14:10:11

pstarr,

You have to be a member to make recommendations. The MF cost money to be a member, but the advantage is, the discussion boards have a lot less junk than most investment sites.

There is even a peak oil discussion board. The Cornucopians outnumber the doomers on the board. However, that is to be expected considering the demographics of the board.

As a doomer I do have some fun with them.

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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby careinke » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 14:10:50

pstarr,

You have to be a member to make recommendations. The MF cost money to be a member, but the advantage is, the discussion boards have a lot less junk than most investment sites.

There is even a peak oil discussion board. The Cornucopians outnumber the doomers on the board. However, that is to be expected considering the demographics of the board.

As a doomer I do have some fun with them.

Cliff (Start a revolution, grow a garden)
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby Ayoob » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 14:12:51

That Motley Fool article is really something. Those guys are such ground-ball, base-hit types. You're not going to see MF go out on a limb for anything.

It kind of made my stomach take a little flip.

I used to be in the investments business. You can always find some economist or another to say that this or that event is likely to happen, make some kind of gloomy prediction. Take Roach at Morgan Stanley, for example. What a pessimist! The first thing he would do with a free puppy is to measure how much piss was inside it.

But these Motley Fool guys are pretty level-headed. They do their own research and basically try to avoid doing anything stupid. Index funds, bonds, CD's, sound long-term financial planning, all that kind of thing. When THEY'RE talking about the peak....

It's kind of weird to finally have respected mainstream news sources writing articles like this one. I've felt like a minority of one for so long.

ETA: KOP2
Last edited by Ayoob on Tue 10 Apr 2007, 14:42:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby mmasters » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 14:13:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', ' ')Something has to stop unrestrained globalization from gobbling up the entire resource base. Propagandizing peak oil would be a profitable way of stopping it.


Amen brother. I'm not sure that they can profitize "deconsumption", but that would definitely be the least painful way out.

Yeah...it would be compared WW3 and such. It's gotta be some milestone event though. Seems like a good one to me, can blame the failure of unrestrained globalization on natural causes. Kind of goes with that global warming hoo ha. The planet is our new enemy. :lol:
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby Clouseau2 » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 15:32:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', 'I')nteresting. My guess is that opinion (aka "Conventional Wisdom") is starting to shift. You can't *say* Peak Oil because then you're a fringe nut loonie.


There was a Boston Legal episode recently where one of the old judges (played by Henry Gibson) suffered from "SSAD" (same sex attaction disorder).

"You're gay"
"No, I suffer from SSAD"

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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby aflurry » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 17:07:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'T')rue growth will not be able to happen after PO,which we have already passed.


The growth model of success will have to be switched out, won't it? I'm not trying to be fruity about it. But it's unlikely that entrepenuerialism will disappear. It's form will change though. On the upslope, growth meant sustainability, on the downslope it can mean destruction. (hell, i can think of many cases where growth meant collapse even on the upside of the curve.)

capital structures will have to change. there should be more interest in things like Open Capital
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Re: Decline Curves Motley Fool Article

Unread postby eastbay » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 18:27:38

Uncoveringtruths,

Thanks. Excellent article. It's nice to see this thinking finally reaching mainstream.
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