[holmes]

I loved it Scott! absolutely enjoyed every second of it. I admire the Spartan culture. Many great things have come from the western culture. Fun movie for sure. I loved the slaughter of the Persians. My girl really digged the artistic visual effects. Cool flick.

[PenultimateManStanding]

The part about the slaughter of the Persians was true. The first wave of 10,000 were all killed with 3 Spartan casualties according to historical accounts. The Greeks were bad-asses, no doubt. And smart and disciplined in tactics. They were used extensively as mercenaries by countries all over the ancient world. Eventually they exhausted themselves fighting each other and their cousins, the Macedonians took over. Then they took it to the slimy Persians in a major way!

[some_guy282]

I just saw the film and to me the propaganda overtones are so obvious. It was ok, but between the convenient timing of the film and the fact that it's based on an actual historical event and not total fiction made it difficult for me to enjoy.

Some messages I think the film conveys, that will be soaked up by certain segments of our population intentionally or unintentionally.

- Those who push for war are brave patriots, and those who die in war are even better.

- Those who argue against war are at best incompetent or cowards, and quite possibly traitors.

- The enemy (in this case Persians) are less than human.


And the whole "We are fighting for freedom and liberty" thing...ugh. Give me a break! I just love how our media inserts all of our values into protagonists, regardless of whether or not they valued anything remotely close to what we do. I mean really, were freedom liberty and democracy held in such high regard in Sparta thousands of years ago? The way all the Spartan warriors cry out "FOR SPARTAAAAAAAAAA!!!!" you'd think they follow something closer to fascism than democracy.

Has anyone read the original comic book and seen the movie? What are the differences? Or is there such an analysis online that could be pointed to? I'm tempted to pick up the original book written by Millar at a more objective time and see what changes were made to the film...

[Chaparral]

I read the graphic novel just before seeing the movie. With the exception of some of the 'monsters', the rhinoceros and the subplot of betrayal back at home, the movie hews pretty tightly to the book. One thing they keep faithful is that the religious authorities sold out for the invader's gold. I read this as a kind of indictment of organized religion, what with Leonidas' dialogue on logic versus superstition and all. I liked the sheer spectacle and the art of it all: it was operatic. Any messages within from the "sponsors" had better not be looked at too closely or the propaganda could backfire.

Another thing about Sparta that this movie conveniently glosses over is that they were slave-holders. Those pretty wheat fields were tended by slaves while the warriors in speedos and red capes sat around either training for battle or taking it easy (course, I doubt that was their dress of the time but anyhow..). Lycurgus, a predecessor to Leonidas and ideological father to Sparta is mentioned exactly once in book and movie. I'd suggest that the pushers of propaganda and jingoism could have chosen a better vehicle for their message: Lycurgus was darn near a communist according to some. He pushed for material equality amongst all Spartan citizens (note that the slaves were most definintely NOT citizens) and eschewed baubles, luxuries and the sort of non-essential garnishment of home, clothing and everything else that we see today. The only avenue for social one-up-manship was in the arena of martial skills. The only profession for a Spartan was 'soldier' and 'farmer' with the slaves doing the farmng and the Spartan collecting the production.

Lycurgus has at times, been lionized by some Marxist writers in the past for his disdain of luxury and dictation of material equality of citizenry. The Spartans were not allowed to grow rich: any excess was taxed away and all citizens remained equal in land, house and possessions. I don't think the Competitive Enterprise Institute would like that.

The Persians by contrast, enjoyed luxury, often times sumptuous. They also enjoyed the "easy life" if they were in a position to get it. Obviously being in a position to attain the "easy life" means one must control a lot of slaves or extract a lot of tribute from their subjects. This suggests that we 'Merkins' are more like Persia then Sparta. It's a case of "don't look too closely" and "dont think too much", just sing along.

If we insist likening ourselves to the Spartans, it is we who today, sit in idleness with time only for football while low-paid Helots from China make our trinkets and those from south of the border flip our burgers and mow our lawns and do some of our fighting for us while we sit around admiring the BMW in the driveway and chortling about how much money we pulled out of our last refi. The difference is that none of our pasty arses could even come close to the skill and discipline of a Spartan. Most us are more like that of the Persian Satrap who reclines on a cushion in a palace all day while others do the growing and fighting and dying.

[Zardoz]

Greco-Persian Wars: Battle of Thermopylae

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t is in many ways the irony of Thermopylae that Sparta, arguably the least free of all the Greek states, now stood as the final defender of Greek freedom. All the things that would make Greece great -- science, art, poetry, drama, philosophy -- were foreign to Sparta. The Spartans had developed a constitution of almost total subordination of the individual to the community.

Spartan elders determined which infants could live or die. Spartan boys were sent into military training at the age of 7. Spartan men lived in barracks, away from their wives, for much of their adult lives. The Spartans ate at a common table, they distributed land equally in an almost communistic fashion and they were forbidden to engage in what were deemed the "superfluous" arts. Such freedoms as their warrior elite enjoyed did not extend to non-Spartans living in their territory, the Helots, who served as their slaves.

[lateralus]

Gates of Fire is a very good book, closer to historical facts, and very well written. If you are bored this summer and like the subject matter then give this novel a read.

[Ayoob]

Guess I already said my piece! Whoops!

[Laughs_Last]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', 'I') loved it. It's a fantastic movie based on a comic book. Try to judge it on it's merits. If you liked Braveheart and Sin City, you'll like this one.

[Ayame]

The Spartans were really nasty pieces of work. I was only by being such that they were able to control a slave population that outnumbered them 10:1. If I had been born a Spartan I would have probably been deemed 'not Spartan' at birth and thrown off a cliff at birth since I had colic.

[Plantagenet]

Its simplistic to imagine the Spartans won because they were "bad asses" or possessed some cultural superiority based on living farther west then the Persians. They won because the Greeks had been developing tactics based on armored hoplites in phalanxes for hundreds of years, and these tactics were deadly against light infantry which made up the bulk of the Persian's army. Victor Davis Hanson has authored a wonderful book about the development of war in classic Greece, complete with descriptions of the weapons, armor and tactics used by Greeks in major battles from Thermopylae to the conquest of Greece by the Romans.

[holmes]

For the love of god! It was an entertainment piece for petes sake! I respect the Spartan warrior code. Not the other political marxist drivel. Take it for what its worth. Fun entertainment. Get a sense of humor some of you! You need it. Its a movie and this "segment of the population" took nothing too deep from it. I watched it. made out with the lady and felt her up. Am I in the this great propaganda conspiracy? Jee wiz I suppose I am. When is the gestap ccoming for me?
Scott,
they were tough warriors. I love the spartan warrior code. That stuff is cool. I dont care if they wore speedos and chain mail. I liked the battle scenes and the wierd Persians. very cool stuff. I give it two thumbs up. Im not sure why I need to look deeper into it. I am self desciplined and do not feel the need to make things into more than what they are. Propaganda? I dont really care if it is.