[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '.')..JasonHam...What are you afraid of?

[RacerJace]

Killjoy this thread is flame bait...

I believe most people reading already consider PO a real issue and are anxious about how it will affect them and thier loved ones.. "some think this is it, 2007 is time to kiss your ass goodbye" ... other still hold on to the "not in my lifetime, not my problem" view of things but conceede there are limits to growth. Even Michael Lynch has conceeded this.

I consider myself a moderate doomer (realist). I believe we have recently crested the top of the peak oil curve and it will be a long bumpy and uncomfortable journey to a new way of life for the remaining humans that know how to and can adapt to a new way of life (I have visions of humanity in 2050 as post modern hunter gatherers in a depleated chaotic wasteland full of abandoned oil age junk and ravaging climatic conditions).

I find that since waking up to PO roughly 2 years ago, I am in a constant state of duality. I am almost looking forward to all hell breaking loose post PO because I fantasise it will release me from the mundane desk job and give my life new meaning, an excuse to exercise my most primal insticts, especially the fight or flight instincts (fear and survival). On the other hand I'm not looking forward to cold showers (or no bathing at all), no toilet paper, malnutrition, health problems with no medical services to turn to, and most of all, the constant fear of my children's and wife's ability to survive.

The knowledge and comprehension of peak oil messes with your head. But one of the reasons humans have become so dominant on this planet is because we have the capacity to plan for the future and act on those plans. Very few animals on this globe can do that. Another remarkable quality is our (for some) ability to sieze opportunity where there is change. I live for change, otherwise you die.

.

[killJOY]

Racer and the rest:

Part of me ain't buying it.

I'm as educated about peak oil as any lay person can be. I teach energy issues to my writing students and can recite EIA stats, depletion curves, and reservoir numbers chapter & verse. But, strangely, I'm not afraid of any of it. Why not? Shouldn't I be?

It's because seeing really is believing. And I'm not seeing any of it. I'm not seeing long lines at gas stations, or seeing gas prices at 4, 5 dollars and not going down, or seeing people siphoning their neighbors' tanks in the wee hours, or seeing trucks disappearing from the highways, or seeing foodstuffs disappearing from supermarket shelves and not returning, or seeing endless tracts of houses remaining for sale 2, 3 years, or seeing friends losing jobs and kids going hungry, or seeing suburbia perpetually burglarized, or seeing a rise in suicides during my rescue squad runs.

I am seeing my little town in Maine going up for sale. For a year, the whole crossroads has been for sale. An old building that caught fire two years ago sits with an open roof and growing fungus inside with a FOR SALE sign out front for 175K. But we're just back water.

I get in my little car and drive to class and still get passed by SUVs pickups Hummers in a rush. I look around and think, peak oil must be a crock of shit.

I'm not feeling it because something in me isn't believing it. Maybe it's because I can't believe until I see. Seeing charts and graphs and essays by experts isn't really seeing. I'm Thomas wanting to put my fingers into Christ's wounds.

Intellectually, I'm a peaker. A doomer, even. Emotionally, I'm just numb. Comforably numb.

[RacerJace]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', '
')
... I'm not seeing any of it. I'm not seeing long lines at gas stations, or seeing gas prices at 4, 5 dollars and not going down, or seeing people siphoning their neighbors' tanks in the wee hours, or seeing trucks disappearing from the highways, or seeing foodstuffs disappearing from supermarket shelves and not returning, or seeing endless tracts of houses remaining for sale 2, 3 years, or seeing friends losing jobs and kids going hungry, or seeing suburbia perpetually burglarized, or seeing a rise in suicides during my rescue squad runs. ....

Intellectually, I'm a peaker. A doomer, even. Emotionally, I'm just numb. Comforably numb.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Windmills', 'A') great many people haven't even heard about peak oil. I think that almost definitively points to a person who is peak oil aware as knowing more than the majority of people...

...So it isn't that many here have no faith in all the proposals that have been offered. They may just lack faith in people caring to implement them until it's too late. So far, they're dead right.

[zoidberg]

To people who think lack of massive price increases and shortages means the problem is a long way off.

This isnt necessarily so. As long as oil production meets demand and has a chance to continue growing then the oil traders and associated market elements arent going to rock the boat with hoarding, or damaging speculation. But I believe they are just as aware of peak oil and are thinking hard to profit. They may be even more aware than we are because they can afford to buy the best data. When peak hits and rolls by and supply shortages become unmistakable thats when everyone will start making their moves. Until then the status quo is desired by everyone, exporters and importers, rich and poor alike. No-one will pursue policies that will lead to the 2050 vision of complete collapse. Even pessimistic scenarios show 2050 to have about half of todays oil production - a far cry from the stone ages. There is tremendous power in governments ability to impose price controls, rationing and direct control of transportation networks.

The real question is not whether we'll collapse after peak but whether enough can hold out long enough to change into something sustainable, or whether it'll just arrest the decline while we eat ourselves. So if anyone is hoping for a chance to loose the inner beserker or leave their dead end job forever, I gots bad news for you. You'll hold onto that job with your teeth, because without it your cold and hungry on the streets. There'll be no land to hop onto because every square meter of good farmland will be occupied.
Want to try crime? I'm certain most major urban centers will get Brazilian type death squads in the future.

Great I've gone and depressed myself. I dont know why I hang around here

[killJOY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he real question is not whether we'll collapse after peak but whether enough can hold out long enough to change into something sustainable, or whether it'll just arrest the decline while we eat ourselves.