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I'm thinking of moving to LA (but open to better ideas)

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I'm thinking of moving to LA (but open to better ideas)

Unread postby Narz » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 01:33:11

I've lived all over, New York (where I'm from), Florida (suburban & urban), come over to Cali (San Diego), came up North (to Santa Cruz and now Monterey). Just recently came back from visiting Torrey, UT where a friend of mine is helping a lady set up a small community on 60 acres of land.

Had various odd jobs along the way and met alot of interesting folks.

Now I'm planning to move to Santa Monica (or nearby) with my roommate and my girlfriend.

Here's my thinking (feel free to debate me on my opinions) :

(1) Society won't crash suddenly, it will be a slow decline. There are still 5-10 more years to plan and get to somewhere safe. In the meantime, more important than a cabin in the woods with a shotgun, a water tank, five cows and a wheat field is skills & social contacts both of which can better be gained engaging with humanity.

(2) If it does all go down at once due to some disaster we're pretty much all screwed anyway so better to be in a place where I can meet people, make friendships and have some fun before I die.

(3) Suburban is worse than rural with many the worst attributes of both urban and rural with few of the advantages of either.

(4) I'm a naturally social person and kind of want to enjoy the party, learn from people, soak up knowledge and experience while the show is still going on. I don't feel mature enough to go off and join a community yet.

(5) I've got my eyes on a few "sustainable communities" and organizations just starting up. Nothing that catches my eye yet. I'm going to watch them and see where they and meanwhile develop myself and learn more so I can get in when things get moving. I don't want to commit myself to anything prematurely.

That's it for now, I didn't really plan out a list in advance of posting.

Thoughts?
Last edited by Narz on Sun 01 Apr 2007, 10:57:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby Baldwin » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 01:36:15

LA? Fine, it is your death sentence. Just make sure your next of kin are not in a major city.
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby Narz » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 01:47:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Baldwin', 'L')A? Fine, it is your death sentence.

What makes you think I'm going to die if I move to L.A.?

Care to write me your version of my predicted obituary?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Baldwin', 'J')ust make sure your next of kin are not in a major city.

Don't have a family yet, just my girlfriend.
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby Narz » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 01:49:08

Please keep in mind that I'm not thinking of settling in L.A. for the rest of my life. Just a few years while I figure out my next move. I plan to live in a walkable area so I won't be dependent on traffic.
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby Eli » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 01:51:10

The argument that we have 5-10 years is not really based on facts.

One good hurricane or a war with Iran and it is over,times up, buddy can you spare a dime?

You know it seems to me I heard there was some stuff going down with Iran just recently too.

Anyway move to L.A. keep your eyes open and when the shit hits the fan head for the hills.


I think just knowing about PO gives us all a huge advantage. When things get crazy we will know how serious the situation is and take the appropriate action.
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby SILENTTODD » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 01:57:00

STOP! DON'T! GO BACK! - Willy Wonka

(take this from a long time time native who is planning on leaving! Read my other posts!)
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby Narz » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 02:02:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'T')he argument that we have 5-10 years is not really based on facts.

One good hurricane or a war with Iran and it is over,times up, buddy can you spare a dime?

Hurricanes don't hit California that I know of.

How will a war with Iran create a "time's up" situation?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'A')nyway move to L.A. keep your eyes open and when the shit hits the fan head for the hills.

I will.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'I') think just knowing about PO gives us all a huge advantage. When things get crazy we will know how serious the situation is and take the appropriate action.

Trust me, I won't stick around when/if things get crazy sooner than expected.

I will wait to get a dog until I am clear of urban areas for good.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SILENTTODD', 'S')TOP! DON'T! GO BACK! - Willy Wonka

(take this from a long time time native who is planning on leaving! Read my other posts!)

Any particular thread?
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby Narz » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 02:11:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I') don't believe you will get much support around here for your decision.

I reckon you're right.

I don't plan to live in the outskirts of LA but the Santa Monica region. I like the beach there and plan to get in shape and meet alot of people before I'm forced into a situation with a much more limited peer group.

I will keep lots of water on hand, be prepared for any temporary disaster and ready to move within a day in case of any serious situation. However, despite doomsayers warnings otherwise I don't see the shit seriously hitting the fan for at least four or five more years (I'm sure many of you oldtimers didn't think we'd still be living the good life in Spring 2007).

I don't have any big dreams of hitting it big in the music industry (though I do have a few friends & career ideas semi-related to the area).

I want to hear people's opinions, I don't care if they disagree or try to scare me off my choice, in fact I welcome it. I want to hear the worst case predictions and think about them. I'm open to alternate ideas now too.

I hope people can understand my desires to move to an area with urban walkability and a wide variety of people too and address those (rather than just trying to scare me to go ANYWHERE BUT THERE).
Last edited by Narz on Sun 01 Apr 2007, 02:20:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby Zardoz » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 02:20:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I') don't believe you will get much support around here for your decision.

Oh, sure he will!

C'mon out and join the rest of us, Narz! Everybody else on this godforsaken planet has moved here, so why not you? Join the frickin' party!

Bring plenty of money, though. You're going to need a bunch of it for rent or, if you're really nuts, a down payment on some rundown fixer-upper in a bad neighborhood. Forget trying to buy a nice place in a decent area. I'm positive that's going to be way beyond your reach.

(By the way, what's wrong with Monterrey?)
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby Narz » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 02:40:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'B')ring plenty of money, though. You're going to need a bunch of it for rent or, if you're really nuts, a down payment on some rundown fixer-upper in a bad neighborhood. Forget trying to buy a nice place in a decent area. I'm positive that's going to be way beyond your reach.

I would never buy land in LA or Southern California at all even if I could manifest millions overnight.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '(')By the way, what's wrong with Monterrey?)

Just not feeling it here.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I')t sounds like paradise and I am sort of envious. What do you mean by a 'limited peer group?'

Nothing to be envious of yet, I haven't found a real sustainable community yet, just people organizing them.

I mean, eventually I'm going to move to a community with a small amount of people and a small amount of people coming thru. It some ways such a group is great but I kind of want to explore the wide world as much as I can before then.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'y')ou seem conflicted. On one hand you talk about emergency supplies and then you scoff at 'doomsayers' who you claim failed on their peak oil predictions. I for one never assumed any problems until 2010 after the deep-water Angolan, Brazilian and the Caspian regions start producing and show their reserves.

Peak oil is forever and will be played out over decades and across continents. Now is the time to make contacts, learn skills, and build communities in places far removed from the mindless masses in LA

Mindless masses. :lol: What if I can make money there now to pay my way later?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'l')ike I said. LA is fun right now and may remain so for years. On the other hand, there is the very likely possibility that we have peaked, that the economy is about to collapse, and that we are soon to enter a serious never-ending world-wide depression characterized by almost complete unemployment, localized hunger and civil disobediance. Is LA the place you want to be then?
That won't happen overnight though.

I do believe places like L.A., Miami, Las Vegas, etc. will eventually become untenable and mired in poverty not before seen in America but not over the course of the next 24 or even 48 months.
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby lateralus » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 03:20:25

A good friend of mine lives just outside of LA. I've had this discussion with him many times and the simple truth is: Who Knows.

We all wish that we can predict the future but the sad reality is that we cannot. Do what you want to and damn the torpedoes.

I can hear the Torquemada's stoking up the firewood for this post but what the hell, I'm a heretic.

I could say that I wouldn't personally live in California because of x or y but I do live in BC which is just as susceptible to x or y. We are talking earthquakes and the like here...but I am young and have no children so perhaps this has something to do with my not giving a damn but I think that it's deeper than that.

Some people will survive in times of chaos and some people will not, it really comes down to the individual. That individual is you.

Make decisions based upon your understanding of yourself and the world that you live in. Keep in mind that those decisions should, at best, be based on sound logic and reasoning. Cover your own ass is what I am getting at here.

It really is up to you. You can hide in the hills of Montana, or hide in the prairies of Saskatchewan but in the end if the plane falls on your house, then it will fall on your house.

So be it.

Then again what do I know....good luck...
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby SILENTTODD » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 03:31:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SILENTTODD', 'S')TOP! DON'T! GO BACK! - Willy Wonka

(take this from a long time time native who is planning on leaving! Read my other posts!)

Any particular thread?


Narz, yes one if I had to warn you, it would be “My Peak Oil Journey Comes Full Circle” in the “Welcome” Forum, started by “pea-jay”.

Pea-Jay is a guy I figure about your age range, around 30, who has a lot of experience dealing with the what use to be the “Good” part of California. Look at his links. He was dealing with central California. Where you’re going is worse. It’s already turning into a third world country.

From what I’ve read LA today is second only to Mexico City in the number of native Spanish Speakers. Consider, this includes Madrid and Barcelona Spain, Caracas Venezuela, and Santiago Chile. Do you or your girl friend speak Spanish? Me I’ve been lazy all my life, and have had girlfriend/lovers who were fluent Spanish speakers to rely on!

My post were facetious, your young and I think smart enough to know when to get out! I don’t plan to myself for another 3 years or if the SHTF earlier. You have friends and network I’m sure back east to rely on.

Your might actually like LA in its last days. Just realize this is not how it was in its glory days or even 40 years ago. Rent or buy copies of “Dragnet”, the 50’s or 60’s version of the show with Jack Webb. While very campy, this is not an inaccurate version of what LA use to be like. Hell, rent a copy of “Rebel Without a Cause” with James Dean, 1955. There’s no discussion about people speaking Spanish is there?
Last edited by SILENTTODD on Sun 01 Apr 2007, 13:06:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby some_guy282 » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 09:41:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '(')5) I've got my eyes on a few "sustainable communities" and organizations just starting up. Nothing that catches my eye yet. I'm going to watch them and see where they and meanwhile develop myself and learn more so I can get in when things get moving. I don't want to commit myself to anything prematurely.


Commit to anything prematurely? From that one sentence I get the impression you hope that at the 11th hour we will all somehow be saved from Peak Oil, so any changes you made to save yourself from it will have been a waste.

I hope that doesn't come off as too harsh, because honestly I see a lot of myself in you. As someone else observed you seem to be conflicted, and I feel the same way. I'm probably younger than you though. Just graduating from college now in a couple of months, been studying Peak Oil for three years now.

Initially I was shocked into inaction. For the most part I still am. It's all so overwhelming. What can you do? In the end, I think this is all what it comes down to.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') don't feel mature enough to go off and join a community yet.


It makes me wonder, how many others are out there like you and I who have been placed in an indefinite state of infancy and dependency by this dumbed down over consumptive world we live in?

Preparing for Peak Oil is a daunting task in and that of itself, and it's made all the more complicated when we're just individuals who are surrounded by people who aren't concerned. And yet, packing up and leaving all of those people behind seems unimaginable. But even if you're prepared to take that step, you have to ask yourself the zillion dollar question: where do you go?

And this is now where you are, posting a topic about moving to LA. You know why you're posting this topic? Because deep down, you know it's a bad, BAD idea. Even if all of what you said in your original post is true, there are still many other places you could potentially move to and do the same things (work, meet people, have fun, etc) that would be better suited for Peak Oil. I would strongly urge you not to move to LA. Look for a smaller more sustainable city town or community. It doesn't have to be an intentional one setup for Peak Oil.

In the interests of full disclosure I'll say a bit about myself. When I found out about Peak Oil three years ago I was just starting out in College. Shocked into inaction I guess I've gone on pretty much as I would have even if I weren't PO aware.

The good: I've avoided taking on large amounts of debt (I can pay off all my debts at a moments notice if necessary), I've been saving what I can in physical precious metals, and I have a bike that I ride pretty much everywhere.

The bad and the ugly: I majored in Political Science (why? why the fuck did I do that?). Like you I don't really know what to do with myself so I'm going to become a teacher here in the city. I figure I'd rather start earning as soon as possible, living below my means and saving in the form of precious metals. In a slow crash government jobs should be relatively secure, even if wages are being offset by inflation. But that will be happening to all jobs. Of course the mega school/prison model is going to be torn apart by PO in the long run, but I don't imagine schools as we know them are going to disappear overnight. And in a fast crash, we're all fucked so what does it matter what I do? Teaching is also something you can do pretty much anywhere, so I figure it leaves me with some freedom of movement.

NYC is as good a place as any for now I suppose. I have family and social connections here. Unlike LA (and most other large cities) it doesn't suffer from sprawl and has excellent mass transit. And, TPTB have a vested interest in making sure it remains stable. For the future, my father owns a few dozen acres of land in upstate NY near James Kunstler's neck of the woods. It's in my name when he dies. There's a small town nearby. If nothing else comes up I think I'll start looking into moving to that area.

Some questions for you. Are your GF and roommate Peak Oil aware? Is anyone else close to you? If not, how have you been received when trying to introduce them to Peak Oil? Is moving to LA your idea, or are you just going with the flow of the people around you?
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby lawnchair » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 10:30:36

Loo F. Lirpa?

If not, what the hell are you expecting to "learn" from people in LA? How to manage a Costco? How to shoot a porno? How to mix overpriced drinks? How to educate 20,000 students to pass a test, yet still be illiterate? How to make smiley faces jump around a webpage? How about how to garden, how to can food, how to mend fences, how to generate electricity?

Those of us in the small towns will say, "F* you, keep on walking".

No, you have not "lived all over". Have you tried a town of 2 to 5 thousand at least 25 miles from a WalMart? Lots of them out there, though it may be hard to find a job requiring whatever useless college education you got. We have the high-speed internet, cable TV, and UPS. Commute time, six minutes on foot, walking by the grocery on the way.

Aww... so you want to only make friendships with pretty people just your age and ever-so-cool in whatever your subculture is. Bully for you.
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Re: I think we're going to move to L.A.

Unread postby Narz » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 10:56:24

TODD, could you summerize you "PO journey comes full circle" thread, there's so much good shit to read on here, I mostly focus on the "Planning for the Future" part.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('some_guy282', 'C')ommit to anything prematurely? From that one sentence I get the impression you hope that at the 11th hour we will all somehow be saved from Peak Oil, so any changes you made to save yourself from it will have been a waste.

Not true. I don't think that at all.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('some_guy282', 'I') hope that doesn't come off as too harsh, because honestly I see a lot of myself in you.

You must be pretty cool. :)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('some_guy282', 'A')s someone else observed you seem to be conflicted, and I feel the same way. I'm probably younger than you though. Just graduating from college now in a couple of months, been studying Peak Oil for three years now.

Initially I was shocked into inaction. For the most part I still am. It's all so overwhelming. What can you do? In the end, I think this is all what it comes down to.

Who said anything about inaction?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('some_guy282', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') don't feel mature enough to go off and join a community yet.


It makes me wonder, how many others are out there like you and I who have been placed in an indefinite state of infancy and dependency by this dumbed down over consumptive world we live in?
Infancy and dependence? Blaming the culture? Hardly. I started this thread didn't I. Nothing is for sure yet. I was talking to my friend in LA on the phone. He's pretty much the only successful (by my definition : self-employeed, free of drone work) I know. I was visualizing living nearby him. Getting my own shit in order in the city and researching more options before moving on to a more sustainable community. I'd still be planting a container garden, doing lots of research, etc. etc. not jerking off to Paris Hitlon videos. ;)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('some_guy282', 'P')reparing for Peak Oil is a daunting task in and that of itself, and it's made all the more complicated when we're just individuals who are surrounded by people who aren't concerned. And yet, packing up and leaving all of those people behind seems unimaginable. But even if you're prepared to take that step, you have to ask yourself the zillion dollar question: where do you go?
I'm asking it right now.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('some_guy282', 'A')nd this is now where you are, posting a topic about moving to LA. You know why you're posting this topic? Because deep down, you know it's a bad, BAD idea. Even if all of what you said in your original post is true, there are still many other places you could potentially move to and do the same things (work, meet people, have fun, etc) that would be better suited for Peak Oil. I would strongly urge you not to move to LA. Look for a smaller more sustainable city town or community. It doesn't have to be an intentional one setup for Peak Oil.
You're right. Though I don't really think its quite as "BAD" as you guys do I still think it's probably not the ideal scenario so I'm looking for criticism and better yet - better ideas!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('some_guy282', 'I')n the interests of full disclosure I'll say a bit about myself. When I found out about Peak Oil three years ago I was just starting out in College. Shocked into inaction I guess I've gone on pretty much as I would have even if I weren't PO aware.

The good: I've avoided taking on large amounts of debt (I can pay off all my debts at a moments notice if necessary), I've been saving what I can in physical precious metals, and I have a bike that I ride pretty much everywhere.
Bikes are the sh!t. Why do you worry about debt though? If TSHTF the way most people seem to think it will debt won't matter. All that stuff is storing electronically and it would take too much manpower to track down all the debtors.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('some_guy282', 'T')he bad and the ugly: I majored in Political Science (why? why the fuck did I do that?). Like you I don't really know what to do with myself so I'm going to become a teacher here in the city. I figure I'd rather start earning as soon as possible, living below my means and saving in the form of precious metals. In a slow crash government jobs should be relatively secure, even if wages are being offset by inflation. But that will be happening to all jobs. Of course the mega school/prison model is going to be torn apart by PO in the long run, but I don't imagine schools as we know them are going to disappear overnight. And in a fast crash, we're all fucked so what does it matter what I do? Teaching is also something you can do pretty much anywhere, so I figure it leaves me with some freedom of movement.
Don't knock yourself. Everything is politics, even if we get knocked back to living like baboons there's still politics (you've seen the Discovery Channel right? ;)).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('some_guy282', 'N')YC is as good a place as any for now I suppose. I have family and social connections here. Unlike LA (and most other large cities) it doesn't suffer from sprawl and has excellent mass transit. And, TPTB have a vested interest in making sure it remains stable. For the future, my father owns a few dozen acres of land in upstate NY near James Kunstler's neck of the woods. It's in my name when he dies. There's a small town nearby. If nothing else comes up I think I'll start looking into moving to that area.
NY may not be as fucked as LA but it's a far more densely packed area and vulnerable to terrorism. I'm a NYer myself though and have a fondness for it. Was born in Manhattan and lived in Queens for three years ('00-''03).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('some_guy282', 'S')ome questions for you. Are your GF and roommate Peak Oil aware? Is anyone else close to you? If not, how have you been received when trying to introduce them to Peak Oil?
My GF semi-believes in peak oil though she's not at all a doomer and doesn't think sh!t's gonna reach get rough for 20 years (I tend to think about 10). Our roommate is kind of a hippie and doesn't think about this stuff at all but a third party to help pay the rent is always helpful, plus she's a friendly and decent person.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('some_guy282', 'I')s moving to LA your idea, or are you just going with the flow of the people around you?
I pretty much set the flow of my own life and only let others lead when I feel it's not a majorly important decision.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lawnchair', 'L')oo F. Lirpa?

If not, what the hell are you expecting to "learn" from people in LA? How to manage a Costco? How to shoot a porno? How to mix overpriced drinks? How to educate 20,000 students to pass a test, yet still be illiterate? How to make smiley faces jump around a webpage? How about how to garden, how to can food, how to mend fences, how to generate electricity?

Those of us in the small towns will say, "F* you, keep on walking".

No, you have not "lived all over". Have you tried a town of 2 to 5 thousand at least 25 miles from a WalMart? Lots of them out there, though it may be hard to find a job requiring whatever useless college education you got. We have the high-speed internet, cable TV, and UPS. Commute time, six minutes on foot, walking by the grocery on the way.

Aww... so you want to only make friendships with pretty people just your age and ever-so-cool in whatever your subculture is. Bully for you.
For all your fence mending skills you could sorely lack comprehension skills. If you read my OP you'd see I just came back from Torrey, UT (population : a few hundred) when a friend of mine is helping building a sustainable community (won't be ready for a few years though, I may go help with the setup for a month or two each summer).

Pay attention and spend less time on the cheap jabs and sterotypes (you don't even know my age or interests). I knew my thread title would rile a few up and push a few buttons but that's ok, I know there's some good practical info even in folks like you. I see the best in people. ;)
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Re: I'm thinking of moving to LA (but open to better ideas)

Unread postby Narz » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 11:17:34

Also, I'm kind of interested in studying the culture in Santa Monica. I'm not into drugs or bars or shopping or any of that crap that fencemender might imagine. I just am interested in people. Understanding human personality and dynamics is a more critical skill than any other.

If I go to a rural area now I'm gonna spend too much time online (albeit maybe studying or reading up and sustainable practices) and be kind of lonely and wish I was out connecting with more people before it became too difficult to travel, etc.

It seems like a lot of people here have some vision of everyone losing their jobs, starving, and starting to kill each other off in any area not 50 miles from the nearest highway come fillintheblankyearhere. I just don't see it going down like that. Have you seen Las Vegas? It's still lit up like a pinball machine. They could power it down to 25% of it's energy usage and it'd still be a pinball machine. Society right now is still abundent with cheap energy, products, services & travel are still super, super cheap. The trend will be downward, I agree with you guys on that (and disagree with the mainstream population and "market will save us" economists) but I don't see people gunning each other down over loaves of bread in the next decade either. Barring some huge disaster or nuclear attack the decline will be slow, IMO.

To get back on track my objective in this thread is to find an alternative location.
“Seek simplicity but distrust it”
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Re: I'm thinking of moving to LA (but open to better ideas)

Unread postby lawnchair » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 11:34:05

Plenty of what you've said implies an age. Not probably far from my own.

I will not claim "I've lived all over", as you did initially. But, several major cities and their suburbs (okay, I'll admit Santa Cruz and Monterey are intimate by Cali standards) do not suffice as "all over". And, no, working on setting up an intentional community that you really can't live in yet is nothing like actually living outside the big city for a while.

By describing LA as the place where you can "meet people, make friendships and have some fun before I die" and "engage with humanity", it would suggest that you would not expect to do so in Clarinda, Iowa or Kane, Pennsylvania, and haven't been stimulated enough in Monterey. A very different personality from my own, but statistically, I'm the oddball, not you. Millions of people are willing to pay a very, very high cost for the experience.

And, if you are not a doomer, then there are "skills and social contacts" aplenty in LA. But, if you do foresee 'doom', then the skills and social contacts of LA strike me as darned near worthless at that time.
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Re: I'm thinking of moving to LA (but open to better ideas)

Unread postby Narz » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 11:43:26

How do you define doom?
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