[privatetartanarmy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateralus', 'I')'m looking for a servant that will be my driver, gardener, butler, and fitness coach. If you meet the requirements feel free to send me a PM.

[jupiters_release]

Reverting to chattel slavery from the economic form we have today just ain't gonna cut the mustard. We here at peakoil and TPTB know that die-off is ultimately an ecological fact as Montequest has pointed out many times. TPTB will make sure that when rising energy prices ignite systemic failures and TSHTF none of it will land on them by containing where TSH, in other words they have to actively reduce population numbers to maintain whatever global infrastructure system they envision for the future. Is there an environmental impact with cremation? I'm a bit curious on TPTB's disposal plan for the billions of us that gotta go, they can't just bury or burn us all? I guess major cities, states, and select countries or continents(ie Africa) can be abandoned and let everyone within marked geographical areas die on their own and rot in the street. I think before they start doing this they'll have to shut the internet down to the public so the news won't spread. Right now its no problem with mitigation in neutral but it'll have to go to 5th gear sooner than later with the oil depletion rates we've been witnessing. The logistics on this is extremely complex and you gotta feel a little sorry for the people who've been put in charge of managing it.

[grabby]

In these scenarios there was a central government in mercas past. When this is gone there won't be slavery. The slave will cut the owners throat one night. Why be a slave when you can have everything free?

If you have two slaves they willl calmly walk up to the master and put a tent stake through his eye.

To put it another way, why do you think you will be the master? No one will allow masters, theyll just kill you one night.

The problem with modern society is everyone thinks they deserve a free ride and they will do anything to get it, they feel themselves justified in doing whatever to take a plantation. Its more fun to run a plantation then to be a slave on it.

It will be worse than you can imagine, everyone will kill everyone out of percieved need.

This actually happened in France when they overthrew the religious government and went to reason government, no on was safe and everyone was raped, everyone was cowering behind trees and no one trusted anyone. millions died.

It will be gangs. when twenty people walk onto your land you wont shoot, and theyll just take anything they want.

[gg3]

I should set up a pharmacy and dispense antidepressants, at this rate I'd be rich in a year.

---

All of the above. In some places, overt slavery with people held by coersion. In some places, wage slavery, and in others, debt peonage, and in others, serfdom. Hopefully the so-called civilized world can resist the urge. But already we see proposals such as the one being floated somewhere in the midwest, by elected officials no less, to rent out prison inmates to agribusiness for a pittance a day.

The problem with slavery is that coerced labor is unreliable labor, resentful labor, and labor that fights back at every chance it gets.

You want to see another outbreak of e coli in the food supply? Remember, last time there was legal chattel slavery, the germ theory of disease hadn't been discovered. Nowadays everyone knows that if you work picking leafy crops such as lettuce, all it takes is to smear some of your own poo on your hand before you go back to work, and you can put the bossman out of business.

Concentration camp slaves, used by the Nazis to build airfields, would save up their own sugar rations to mix into the concrete, thereby producing concrete that would not harden properly, which in turn would cause landing aircraft to flip when they ran over the sabotaged section of the strip.

And that's just skimming the surface.

---

However there is reason to believe that certain areas will be able to hold out as enlightened and rational places. First requirement for these areas will be to keep their population levels below their local carrying capacity. Second requirement will be consistent application of the rule of law according to constitutional principles. Third requirement will be some means of free enterprise that is participatory enough to assure a baseline level of Jeffersonian smallholders in the economy at all times.

My group is working on plans that will support these tendencies in Northern California. We plan to establish a string of communities (rather than just one) to provide educational & research support as well as microenterprise development and other supporting services in the region.

No one knows how it's all going to come out, but no one I know is going to give in or give up.

[grabby]

There has to be a large organized governant body to punish abusive slaveowners and to punish recalcitrant slaves, and they have to be large and powerful enough to survive multiple attacks by gangs until they realize it isnt worth fighting for it.

It wouled be modeled after the old west, and one model that worked was the "Hanging judge" model.

There is a jail to hold em and court was as soon as possible, and you hung them or let them go, nono of this 2 months in jail garbage. People who broke the law or were a danger to the community were hung in public until the bodies rotted and they were at the entrance to the community.

Very effective deterant for people coming into the community.
There was a not on the tree telling what the criminal did so others can be warned,

Then slavery could work and if you didn't drive the slaves to hard they would be somewhat happy.

model the slavery after George Washingtons estate, they could have families and live together and could have family time...

Things that worked in history will work again, things that didnt won't

So much history is rewritten now its hard to find what worked and what didn't


etc. History, the real kind, would be good to know. Would be a good hobby now.

The communities would have to be set up before the fall, and set up in such a way that it is not obvious what is planned by the now existant powers that be, and when needed, they can come together and form pre-existant plan. assume a 20 percent survival rate in an isolated community like pristine North cal from the radiation.

There has to be a judge system to take out drug abusing philanderers like Jim Jones types, for anyone, including you, who is allowed to make rules randomly will become evil. There has to be swift punishment for abusive sherriffs, like a council.

The worst communities will be run by the patriarch system, where one man makes the rules, it will definitely turn evil.

There has to be rules on sex.. Strict rules like no adultery. this will turn a cummunity to infighting group of hyenas.

in fact if you put in the ten commandments you will be fine, otherwise it will come apart.

its all been tried before.

learn from history.

its all in the constitution.

They formed it exactly under the conditions we will see again, and think of the indians back then as roving gangs.
same scenario.

[mmasters]

Hell, take a look in corporate america, all these turf battles and nasty political games so people can retain their jobs and positions in the power structure. You can bet your life the elite will screw over the general populace to maintain if not increase their rule.

[grabby]

There is a true story about a community
This is a true story of the men who formed a nation after the mutiny on the bounty. After putty BLigh out in a boat, The leader, took his FAVORITE FRIENDS and sailed of to start a community on an island where Captain bligh would not find them, and burnt the boat. They had FRIEND RULE where everyone would be kind to another and everyone would share lovey dovey everything. All were equal and all could do what they wanted to do. Think it worked?
Nay.

That community tore apart, there were revenge assaults adultery, murders death attacks and inter Island war. Soon there were only two males left and just while plotting the last attack to kill the other, one man said, this isnt going to work. He saw an old unused bible on a shelf and then he thought, "we will make this the rule." The other man agreed, they stopped drinking alcohol made it illegal they got trid of the weopons and they made the ten commmandments the rule. Simple. Their children continued the tradition.

100 years later the community was found and it was total peace no war no weopons and everyone got along. alcohol was illegal.

In fact they had no rules because no one ever broke the laws any more. There was no jail. everything was working well. You think you will have a free love community with free reign and do what you wish cause men are naturally kind, it won't work.

When God is in charge you no longer have to worry if your neighbor is keeping the rules, he knows he is being watched wherever he is, and so do you. The rules keep everyone in line.
What is adultery? Agreement that if your neighbor won't rape your wife then you won't rape your neighbors wife. It really is a good way to live.

the only community that has survived 2000 years ran on those rules. They had the ten commandments, though they many times joined pagan sexual cults over the years, and the majority died, the remnant came back and went to the rules again. they always came back to what worked, the Jews did it. they still follow their rules and their community still exists. no other single community has survived that long. America took its laws from them, because they were good laws. from set laws that even the leaders had to follow. anything else will not work eventually.


if everyone followed the rules no one would ever be killed.

Free love and sex will make
1. Perverts
2. Jim Joneses.
3. Dead, sad, community.

Even nature tells you, that if you have a harem the young bucks are sharpening their horns.

[max_power29]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ferrelgiraffe', '
')look at it this way:

you are traveling into a new community post peak oil, looking for trade and at the entrance to the large village there is arotting corpse crucified on one side of the road with an enscription "Here hangs our mayor who skimmed funds and hired contractors without proper bidding" and three old bodies hanging from a tree on the other side of the road with notes "Reneged on contracts", you would probably think twice about starting trouble, and your business practice, I dare say, would be straight as an arrow. I would bet your scales would even measure a little extra in your trades.

[xerces]

I was reading a few articles earlier today that went into some details into the apparently widespread practice of human slavery that still exists in many parts of Africa, southern India, certain areas of Europe and the pacific rim nations.

Now this is a really far out stretch of the imagination, but I guess I'm in a doomerish mood tonight. My question is, if the doomers' fantasies comes true and Peakoil does cause a major collapse/retrenchment of central authorities, do any of you see slavery as a viable economic practice re-emerging in the next 50 years?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('xerces', '.').. if the doomers' fantasies comes true and Peakoil does cause a major collapse/retrenchment of central authorities, do any of you see slavery as a viable economic practice re-emerging in the next 50 years?

[katkinkate]

On the other hand, the existance of slavery relies to some extent on the availability of easy to get bodies. As the source populations decline, as it is expected to, eventually slaves will become more expensive to buy as the supply dries up.

[I_Like_Plants]

Too many people will be the problem first - we'll see people happy to enter slavery to stay fed.

I theorize we'll see a common situation where a lot of 'Merkins are able to basically "retain" a Mexican or have-not 'Merkin who does odd jobs around the house, goes on their bicycle and does the shopping and errends, tends the garden, walks the dog, whatever, for room (a shack or tent or cottage out back) and maybe $500 a month. As things get worse, this will solidify from servitude to slavery.

What amazes me is the credit-slavery brought on by the usury that's a pillar of our culture, that has even fairly wealthy 'Merkins working like crazy. That's never talked about.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('xerces', 'I') was reading a few articles earlier today that went into some details into the apparently widespread practice of human slavery that still exists in many parts of Africa, southern India, certain areas of Europe and the pacific rim nations.

Now this is a really far out stretch of the imagination, but I guess I'm in a doomerish mood tonight. My question is, if the doomers' fantasies comes true and Peakoil does cause a major collapse/retrenchment of central authorities, do any of you see slavery as a viable economic practice re-emerging in the next 50 years?

[perdition79]

Forced labor mines the coltan used in the components of your cellphones. (Its refined form is a great semiconductor worth $100 a pound.) Prisoners, children and slaves are dying in the Congo, working at the business end of rebels' rifles to make it possible for you to talk to your friends. Just another example of the entire world forced to cater to our need for imperialist trinkets.

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('perdition79', 'F')orced labor mines the coltan used in the components of your cellphones. (Its refined form is a great semiconductor worth $100 a pound.) Prisoners, children and slaves are dying in the Congo, working at the business end of rebels' rifles to make it possible for you to talk to your friends. Just another example of the entire world forced to cater to our need for imperialist trinkets.

[Zardoz]

Brazil's Ethanol Slaves

[OilIsMastery]

Jail Time For Slavery?. Heaven forbid. link
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')OUAKCHOTT, Mauritania - Mauritania has passed a law promising jail time for slave-holders, an important step in the northwest African country's push to eliminate a practice that has quietly persisted despite a 25-year-old ban.
The law, adopted unanimously late Wednesday by the legislature, calls for prison sentences of up to 10 years for people found keeping slaves, along with fines for slave-holders and reparations for those who have been enslaved.
Human rights campaigners praised the law as a signal that a long-awaited cultural shift might finally be taking hold in Mauritania, where slavery has existed for hundreds of years and is ensconced in traditional proverbs, songs and poems.

[Tanada]

Laws mean nothing without enforcement. How is this an improvement over the 25 year old ban they already have which is not enforced?

Kind of like US Border laws.

[mekrob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut America is evil.

[Falconoffury]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here are an estimated 50,000 slaves in the US, just for the sole purpose of sex. That doesn't include sweatshop laborers, illegals, etc.