$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zentric', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')If jobs are sacrificed in order to use less (which must take place), those people might care to differ.
Waste is part of GDP as well.
PeakOil is You
Deflation and Stagflation; An Ominous Portent
by MonteQuest » Sat 17 Mar 2007, 19:04:34
You talk of waste as being a necessary part of GDP. I talk about it as being a part of our consumption culture that can be shed. But I prefer my way of looking at it because it seems more accurate.
So, the jobs that are created due to this waste are not necessary?
Those that get a paycheck would disagree.
You shed the waste and you shed the jobs that support it.
I'm not saying we shouldn't conserve or cut out waste, but you have to realize that the paychecks still go out for wasteful use.
Energy cares not what it gets used for.
Who absorbs the loss of jobs, businesses, and livelyhood that goes when the waste goes?
Waste is a necessary part of GDP if you want to keep the jobs that support it.
What do you do with the unemployed when you cut the waste so supply can meet demand?
New jobs? And just where, pray tell, does the energy come from to create these new jobs?
You just cut their jobs so supply could meet demand.
Back to square one.
Back to splittng the remaining pie even further...thus lowering the standard of living.
20 people with jobs at $20/hr will have to take a 50% pay to $10/hr cut so that 20 unemployed people from the "cutting of waste" can have a job.
As the population grows, the pie gets smaller and the wages get less.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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Re: Deflation and Stagflation; An Ominous Portent
by Ludi » Sat 17 Mar 2007, 19:11:29
Who has a job which isn't part of the "consumption culture"?
I know for certain my job is part of the consumer culture, but, so many others seem to think there must be many jobs which are not part of the consumer culture. What are these jobs which are vital, and not part of "waste"?
I know for certain my job is part of the consumer culture, but, so many others seem to think there must be many jobs which are not part of the consumer culture. What are these jobs which are vital, and not part of "waste"?
- Ludi
Re: Deflation and Stagflation; An Ominous Portent
by MonteQuest » Sat 17 Mar 2007, 19:22:48
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'W')ho has a job which isn't part of the "consumption culture"?
And who has a job that is not part of the waste culture?
Waste culture to me includes, ICE racing, motorhomes, jetskis, private pleasure boats and aircraft, all off-road vehicles, etc.
Will we still race cars when you have to wait in line for gas every day? Will we let motorhomes fill up when there is a chance the pumps will soon run dry that day?
Now, how many people have a job that supplies these industries one way or another?
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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Re: Deflation and Stagflation; An Ominous Portent
by sylviah » Wed 21 Mar 2007, 16:07:46
Ok, so I've got a few questions. Bascially, inflation is out of control. It's not under control, like the fed reserve would like us to think. They've basically changed the way that they calculate inflation so that we don't get too frightened and think, crap, inflation is out of control.
Health care costs are rising at least 10% a year.
"Crude foodstuffs and feedstuffs" are up 18.8% since the same time LAST YEAR.
A barrel of oil is up 100% since 2003.
Those are just the ones that I remember the numbers for. There's much more (see http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/ ... _of_i.html and related links)
So this is trouble. We're creating less jobs than there are new workers (which means that in real terms, we're actually losing jobs), the housing market is still tanking, retailers are doing badly, the dollar is doing badly, the stock market is seeing the beginnings of its own bubble bursting, and prices on everything are rising.
And that's just us. In Mexico, which recently hit its national peak in oil production (and which depends on its oil industry for 40% of its income) the ethanol craze has made the price of tortillas triple and in some areas quadruple since last summer.
Ok, so here's my question. I know that no-one cares about Mexico. They could all starve to death and the mainstream media would report something like "Mexicans cause own death by refusing to eat more tortillas out of sheer third-world stubbornness". And people would eat it up with a FoxNews spoon.
But the world does care what happens to the USA. And, more to the point, people care what happens to the US economy. People really, really care, because the entire global economy is dependent on the US consumer right now.
All of this recent inflation, I'm sure, can be tied to the doubling of the price of oil within the past 3 years. So: higher oil prices means higher prices in general equals more inflation means Mr. American consumer consumes less means US economy does worse.
So my question is:
WHY IS OPEC NOT INCREASING ITS PRODUCTION QUOTAS?
Can someone tell me what's up?
Health care costs are rising at least 10% a year.
"Crude foodstuffs and feedstuffs" are up 18.8% since the same time LAST YEAR.
A barrel of oil is up 100% since 2003.
Those are just the ones that I remember the numbers for. There's much more (see http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/ ... _of_i.html and related links)
So this is trouble. We're creating less jobs than there are new workers (which means that in real terms, we're actually losing jobs), the housing market is still tanking, retailers are doing badly, the dollar is doing badly, the stock market is seeing the beginnings of its own bubble bursting, and prices on everything are rising.
And that's just us. In Mexico, which recently hit its national peak in oil production (and which depends on its oil industry for 40% of its income) the ethanol craze has made the price of tortillas triple and in some areas quadruple since last summer.
Ok, so here's my question. I know that no-one cares about Mexico. They could all starve to death and the mainstream media would report something like "Mexicans cause own death by refusing to eat more tortillas out of sheer third-world stubbornness". And people would eat it up with a FoxNews spoon.
But the world does care what happens to the USA. And, more to the point, people care what happens to the US economy. People really, really care, because the entire global economy is dependent on the US consumer right now.
All of this recent inflation, I'm sure, can be tied to the doubling of the price of oil within the past 3 years. So: higher oil prices means higher prices in general equals more inflation means Mr. American consumer consumes less means US economy does worse.
So my question is:
WHY IS OPEC NOT INCREASING ITS PRODUCTION QUOTAS?
Can someone tell me what's up?
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Re: Deflation and Stagflation; An Ominous Portent
by MonteQuest » Wed 21 Mar 2007, 18:49:27
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sylviah', 'S')o my question is:
WHY IS OPEC NOT INCREASING ITS PRODUCTION QUOTAS?
Can someone tell me what's up?
WHY IS OPEC NOT INCREASING ITS PRODUCTION QUOTAS?
Can someone tell me what's up?
How about they cannot?
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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MonteQuest - Expert
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- Location: Westboro, MO
