[TWilliam]

PenultimateManStanding what an excellent thread!

If you or anyone else is interested in an incredibly insightful and thoroughly horrifying understanding of the public school system from someone who spent 30 years as a teacher in the Manhattan public schools, you might want to read some of John Taylor Gatto's work.

His book, "The Underground History of American Education" is available online chapter by chapter (the link is to the table of contents).

Or you may prefer this short introduction to his perspective, The Seven-Lesson Schoolteacher, his response to being named "New York State Teacher of the Year" for 1991. Personally I recommend this one be read first. The book pretty much presents from whence he draws these conclusions...

I found both to be compelling reads.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Yes the 7 lesson thing was compelling. What do you think of Toynbee and his claim that civilization in its waning years turns to technology because the soul of the civilization has fled?

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'W')hat do you think of Toynbee and his claim that civilization in its waning years turns to technology because the soul of the civilization has fled?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'W')hat do you think of Toynbee and his claim that civilization in its waning years turns to technology because the soul of the civilization has fled?

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I')f I had my druthers, I'd have been born in Holland in 1600.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I')f I had my druthers, I'd have been born in Holland in 1600.

[frankthetank]

Twilliam please elaborate more. I would be very interested in your story. I've always had the thought of doing something like this, but have found its hard to make such a life change. Were you near a hot spring? That would have made if heaven! or atleast Shangri-La...

[GreenMan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I') think it would be a serious error to assume that the purpose of schools has much to do with education. From what I can see it's about breaking kids will. What kids are learning is how to sit in neat rows with their hands folded and be quiet. They are learning submission. Actual intelligence is a grave offense in schools. They actively seek to dumb everyone down to the same level by placing them in a monotanous unispiring environment and teaching them the same irrelevant, uninteresting topics year after year after year. The power dynamics are really remarkable. Don't speak, move, or think without permission. Need to use the restroom? Tough. Hungry? Tough. Thirsty? Tough. Bored? Tough. DO NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY! If you do dare to question authority, we will dope you up with Soma...I mean Ritalin. There is an epedemic of pediatric constipation in this country, because the kids can't use the freakin bathroom when they need too.

Kids are naturally curious. If ya just let them be, they'll learning all day long. They have fun learning. Because of the way the power dynamics are constructed in schools, kids are trained to hate learning. School isn't about fostering the mind. It's about breaking the spirit. It's about forming individuals into one monotanous herd. It is not a coincidence that some of the most vocal proponents of public education were people like Henry Ford...people who needed cookie cutter workers, to work in cookie cutter jobs in cookie cutter factories. That BTW is the origin of bells in schools They were instituted to simulate the factory bells. To accustom kids to timing their movements and activity to the sound of the bell. A nice placid controllable herd.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')hat's fantastic! What an experience that must have been. I'm jealous. I would love to hear more about that.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Yeah , I guess you're right. But hey, it sounded so romantic what you did.It doesn't really matter where you are or what walk of life you're in, if you want to connect with the ABSOLUTE then somehow you're going to do it.

[Guest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'S')omething it helped me realize: our consumer culture is driven primarily by our forced alienation from ourselves. As individuals we are indoctrinated from the cradle on up that we are powerless and ignorant (and more often than not, debased "sinners" as well), that we absolutely cannot trust ourselves to determine our path through life and that we therefore must look to "authority" (be it teachers, politicians, preachers, corporate admen, etc.) to tell us What We "Need", Who We Are and What We're About.

My feeling is that "The System" demands our constant attention because people that come to know and trust themSelves (which tends to happen when one actually gets to spend time with oneself) tend to make lousy consumers...

[Riddick]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'S')omething it helped me realize: our consumer culture is driven primarily by our forced alienation from ourselves. As individuals we are indoctrinated from the cradle on up that we are powerless and ignorant (and more often than not, debased "sinners" as well), that we absolutely cannot trust ourselves to determine our path through life and that we therefore must look to "authority" (be it teachers, politicians, preachers, corporate admen, etc.) to tell us What We "Need", Who We Are and What We're About.

My feeling is that "The System" demands our constant attention because people that come to know and trust themSelves (which tends to happen when one actually gets to spend time with oneself) tend to make lousy consumers...

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Riddick', 'I')t is my belief that the inner self is where all the answers are.

[Riddick]

Good God, I can't spell very well the last couple of days. CNN must be making me stupid.

Apologies

[BastardSquad]

I thought this link might be of interest here.


http://www.ourcivilisation.com/

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BastardSquad', 'I') thought this link might be of interest here.


http://www.ourcivilisation.com/

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BastardSquad', 'I') thought this link might be of interest here.


http://www.ourcivilisation.com/

[stu]

Nice one Bastardsquad.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BastardSquad', 'I') thought this link might be of interest here.


http://www.ourcivilisation.com/

[BastardSquad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BastardSquad', 'I') thought this link might be of interest here.


http://www.ourcivilisation.com/