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The Consumerism Thread (merged)

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Re: US education system optimized to create consumers?

Unread postby WildRose » Sun 25 Feb 2007, 17:33:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'I')'ve been reading some of John Taylor Gatto's stuff and finding it very interesting. It suddenly occurs to me why some children win many awards in school and others don't receive any.


The funny (but not really surprising) thing is that it's generally the ones who don't that are often the most brilliant.

It was refreshing to have something I observed myself when I was in high school confirmed by an 'insider', namely that it was usually the rebels --mostly what the other cliques referred to as 'the dopers'-- who were more often than not the most intelligent and insightful kids. Learning was and continues to be a passion. School, however, bored us to tears...

Of course JTG doesn't put it in quite those terms, but you can deduce it from enough of his writing.



It makes sense to me. It certainly describes me in high school, bored, disillusioned, excelling only in my music class...

And I realize that students with certain behavioral patterns are given awards for their leadership, citizenship, etc., which seems to fit in with Gatto's ideas about school structure readying kids for corporate and government futures.
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Re: US education system optimized to create consumers?

Unread postby 128shot » Sun 25 Feb 2007, 20:47:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', '
')
I mean who under 18 post in this forum? :-)



Me :-D
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Re: US education system optimized to create consumers?

Unread postby Baldwin » Sun 25 Feb 2007, 20:54:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'I')'ve been reading some of John Taylor Gatto's stuff and finding it very interesting. It suddenly occurs to me why some children win many awards in school and others don't receive any.


The funny (but not really surprising) thing is that it's generally the ones who don't that are often the most brilliant.

It was refreshing to have something I observed myself when I was in high school confirmed by an 'insider', namely that it was usually the rebels --mostly what the other cliques referred to as 'the dopers'-- who were more often than not the most intelligent and insightful kids. Learning was and continues to be a passion. School, however, bored us to tears...

Of course JTG doesn't put it in quite those terms, but you can deduce it from enough of his writing.


In my old elementary school, the names of children who won awards (many of them chosen on a subjective basis) were either closely related to: A) village government B) faculty/administration C) owners of prominent town instutions (the best restaurant for example) D) helicopter PTA parents who were usually on the selection committee

In my Catholic high school, the award list for seniors reads startingly like the list of highest contributors to school fundraising.
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Re: US education system optimized to create consumers?

Unread postby Rob_0126 » Mon 26 Feb 2007, 23:20:44

Well, as the title suggests, it's much worse. The puppet masters of the government want to make total idiots out of our kids. Then it will be easier to control them. Simple?
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Re: US education system optimized to create consumers?

Unread postby max_power29 » Tue 27 Feb 2007, 04:13:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Baldwin', '
') A) village government B) faculty/administration C) owners of prominent town instutions (the best restaurant for example) D) helicopter PTA parents who were usually on the selection committee

In my Catholic high school, the award list for seniors reads startingly like the list of highest contributors to school fundraising.


In my high school in Grants Pass oregon, these were the kids who were awarded scholarships for college and got to play first string on the sports teams.

I hate the Rotary type clubs, I really do

Guess who the quarteback was! It was the head coaches son of course. Did nobody else but me notice this obvious conflict of interest?
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Re: US education system optimized to create consumers?

Unread postby mercurygirl » Tue 27 Feb 2007, 18:43:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'T')hat's in Surely You're Joking! isn't it? Great stories in there about lockpicking at the Manhattan Project, and the guys who were storing cases of uranium seperated by merely a thin wall...


Yeah! Great stories, funny book and character. He was an independent thinker, for sure.

Another book I really like is "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". I've been reading it off and on for 10 years. Lots in there on independent thought and the nature of reality and education.

I too, find the whole reward/punishment thing very interesting...been reading that rewarding kids is just as bad as punishment, because it's manipulative and phony and makes them dependent on others' approval. Think about it, it makes sense.

I got a talk with the guidance counselor when I was young for appearing to be "underachieving". I was always rebellious (mentally) and never did anything the easy way.
Last edited by mercurygirl on Sat 03 Mar 2007, 17:43:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US education system optimized to create consumers?

Unread postby TWilliam » Tue 27 Feb 2007, 22:55:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', 'M')ost of the dopers I knew in high school landed exactly where everyone expected them to, nowhere. Some of them were among the smartest, most talented kids I knew.


Did it occur to you that most of them landed "nowhere" perhaps because they recognized early on that the "somewhere" they were *supposed* to be heading was ultimately just as much of a dead end?

My brother went the straight-arrow-honors-and-corporate-monkey route. He's set to retire this year, and I gotta tell ya, he is one of the angriest, most disillusioned people I know. Oh sure, he's got his "benefits", and most of his stuff is bought and paid for, but I have rarely throughout my entire life seen him smile.

Enjoying the journey is far more important, imo, than the ultimate destination.
"It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
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Re: US education system optimized to create consumers?

Unread postby Rob_0126 » Fri 02 Mar 2007, 21:36:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', 'M')ost of the dopers I knew in high school landed exactly where everyone expected them to, nowhere. Some of them were among the smartest, most talented kids I knew.


Did it occur to you that most of them landed "nowhere" perhaps because they recognized early on that the "somewhere" they were *supposed* to be heading was ultimately just as much of a dead end?

My brother went the straight-arrow-honors-and-corporate-monkey route. He's set to retire this year, and I gotta tell ya, he is one of the angriest, most disillusioned people I know. Oh sure, he's got his "benefits", and most of his stuff is bought and paid for, but I have rarely throughout my entire life seen him smile.

Enjoying the journey is far more important, imo, than the ultimate destination.


Just goes to show, money isnt everything.
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Re: US education system optimized to create consumers?

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Fri 02 Mar 2007, 23:44:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '
')My brother went the straight-arrow-honors-and-corporate-monkey route. He's set to retire this year, and I gotta tell ya, he is one of the angriest, most disillusioned people I know. Oh sure, he's got his "benefits", and most of his stuff is bought and paid for, but I have rarely throughout my entire life seen him smile.
.


That's because in a Calvinist culture (ours) you're not supposed to fucking smile. And what you say is correct, show me a successful person in the US and I'll show you a real asshole. Even Jay Leno - I've met him a couple of times, really a nice guy, I thought, but I learned later he's a fucking workaholic, does stand-up something like 300 days a year even though he's got the Tonight Show. Wow. Nice guy but there's something really sick and American down inside.
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Re: US education system optimized to create consumers?

Unread postby max_power29 » Sat 03 Mar 2007, 00:42:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '
')My brother went the straight-arrow-honors-and-corporate-monkey route. He's set to retire this year, and I gotta tell ya, he is one of the angriest, most disillusioned people I know. Oh sure, he's got his "benefits", and most of his stuff is bought and paid for, but I have rarely throughout my entire life seen him smile.
.


That's because in a Calvinist culture (ours) you're not supposed to fucking smile. And what you say is correct, show me a successful person in the US and I'll show you a real asshole. Even Jay Leno - I've met him a couple of times, really a nice guy, I thought, but I learned later he's a fucking workaholic, does stand-up something like 300 days a year even though he's got the Tonight Show. Wow. Nice guy but there's something really sick and American down inside.


I agree with you two, except a comedian is not a good example. I think comedians are out every night for fun; not because they are workaholics. Most do it for paractically free. I specualte Jay Leno would "work" even if nobody paid him also.
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Consumerism: Very good article in current Mother Jones mag

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Mon 12 Mar 2007, 01:20:55

If you're rich, why ain't ye happy? Linky: linkl
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Re: Very good article in current Mother Jones magazine

Unread postby jboogy » Mon 12 Mar 2007, 03:45:20

mom and dad work, work, work to get the huge house , the fancy car . meanwhile the simple pleasures of the past thousands of years , walking through the woods with your kids , helping mom bake cookies , playing monopoly or parcheesi etc. , fall more and more by the wayside 'cause parents are either always working or too tired after work to do more than stare at the boob tube and dread the next days grind.
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Re: Very good article in current Mother Jones magazine

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Mon 12 Mar 2007, 04:37:16

Exactly.
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Re: Very good article in current Mother Jones magazine

Unread postby shakespear1 » Mon 12 Mar 2007, 04:46:28

Yepp, not too far from the situation the landless had when kings ruled.

I remember when I was small majority of my friends parents and mine would be home by 4 PM. That is long gone now. People spend more time commuting and working then being at home relaxing.

8) :? 8) :?
Men argue, nature acts !
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"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."

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Re: Very good article in current Mother Jones magazine

Unread postby gg3 » Mon 12 Mar 2007, 08:40:45

"The colonization of time" goes hand-in-hand with "the war on subsistence." The goal of both of these being to monetize 100% of everyone's life, so there is nothing one can do without having to get permissions or spend money to do it.

And the worst part is that it is nearly impossible to just continue living by the old rules. The system is rigged to force people to adapt to changes that are destroying their lives. Next time you hear the phrase "movers and shakers," ask yourself what happens to those who are moved and shaken.
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Re: Very good article in current Mother Jones magazine

Unread postby oowolf » Mon 12 Mar 2007, 16:24:02

A life of voluntary poverty and simplicity for 35 years. I still don't carry "I.D.", pay income taxes, drive/support ICE powered vehicles, fly in planes, wait in lines, or anything else I don't want to do. I call it "freedom". Strange thing is...it was amazingly easy.

It's pathetic that there exist so many that have accepted the lie that "life" consists primarily of mindless consumerism.

Where have you people been all your lives?
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Consumer Entitlement, Narcissism, and Immoral Consumption

Unread postby ECM » Wed 25 Apr 2007, 20:46:11

I came across this article and thought that it gives a decent look into the consumer culture. This is a Word document and is 4-5 pages of reading.

Consumer

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')As you read the following two paragraphs, picture a Northern/Western consumer in your minds’ eye. You will find it alarming how readily one can apply the characteristics of a narcissist to a Northern/Western consumer. Narcissists need attention, admiration, affirmation, and applause from others to reinforce their false sense of themselves. They have a grandiose sense of entitlement. They only care about appearances. They lack empathy. Everything and everyone are mere objects, unconditionally and uncomplainingly available for their pursuit of instant gratification. They are perniciously exploitive, using, abusing, and discarding people in a chilling manner. They have convinced themselves of their superiority, omnipotence (unlimited power), and immunity. They feel a deep need to “put people in their place” as a way to reinforce their regal sense of self. Narcissists are firmly convinced of their self-importance, making them feel entitled to special treatment, immediate gratification, and leniency (indulgence) (Vaknin, 2002).

Still with the consumer in mind, narcissists are impervious to the consequences of their actions, feel above reproach, feel protected, and believe they will be saved at the last moment; hence, the audacity and transparency of their consumption behaviour. They rarely cover their traces and are convinced that they are above moral laws. Since they tend to get away with it, they tend to feel immune to repercussions. They lack self-awareness and feel like a mere spectator; hence, they do not own their actions. Therefore, they cannot understand why they should be punished, feeling very wronged when they are reprimanded for their actions. Being held accountable is always a huge surprise and a nuisance but also proves to them that strong forces are out to get them. When made to pay for any misdeeds, a narcissist is always disdainful, bitter, and feels mistreated (Vaknin, 2002)
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Re: Consumer Entitlement, Narcissism, and Immoral Consumptio

Unread postby undertaker » Wed 25 Apr 2007, 22:59:44

Great find! I downloaded it, read and saved it. Thanks!
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Re: Consumer Entitlement, Narcissism, and Immoral Consumptio

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Wed 25 Apr 2007, 23:45:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')he best consumers are techtopians. They believe in the progress of the human mind applied to toys. They buy the lastest cameras, cars, mp3 players. Especially rich techtopians because they buy cigrareette racers, fast cars, private jets and yachts. And they order in from fancy restaurants (but that food is not packaged!!) and they use little LEDs.

The next best consumers are travelers. They believe in the power of multiculturalism and finding deals in small native villages. They believe that the simple agrarian folks, in New Mexico or Vermont, or in ancient cultures in 3rd world countries, or even in your older european areas, can teach them about humility, thrift, localism, native foods and crafts, kultures,and especially community because these simple natural people are closer to the earth mother, the ultimate source of wisdom. They bring back stuff and then they open stores like Pier1 Imports.

The next best consumers are rednecks. They like burning up shit whether it be gasoline, forests, plastic-styrene cups, or the wrong neighbors. And they do it for the Gipper, the country, and the flag because they know (in what is left of their intellectual command) that buying shit is good for the economy

The next best consumers are fat people. They just like bulk.

oh and teens.


Great post! Let me add a group, yuppie-cyclists. The bicycle is the last good invention, frugality on wheels, but these geeks use it as a reason to buy tons of shit, they drive to their rides and drive back, etc.
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