[Baldwin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('undertaker', 'A')lso tai chi, qigong for developing your chi, and for fighting either wing chun or jeet kune do (basically the same) and of course a grappling style like Gracie Brazilian ju-jitsu. But nowadays any Judo school worth it's salt will teach some of the Gracie stuff too.

[FourOfSwords]

Good posting all around. Couldn't agree more about the emphasis placed on book reading mentioned by Windmills. I know I will leave myself wide open for some vigorous criticism but here goes anyway:
As an experiment, I feel that the following curiculum should be emphasized in public schools, but not to the exclusion of other subjects:
1) Philosophy
2) Rhetoric(the art of good speaking, not today's version)
3) Gymnastics
4) Music
5) Singing
6) Poetry/Prose
In all sincerity I feel these would produce well rounded students, who would view themselves as citizens, and give them the ability to think critically, not just sit there and learn by rote.
These worked well for Athenians, and the Spartans. The most free thinking society(Athens) and the most militaristic(Sparta) of their times. Something I think that America styles itself as.(free thinking and mlitaristic that is)
A.

[frankthetank]

Carlin link above is dead for me. ANyone know which act that as so i can try to find it? Was laughing real hard last night when it worked, want to show it to someone else.

thanks

[lotrfan55345]

...not enough homework?
Students can chose hard classes in high school to challenge themselves. I get 2-6 hours of homework per night, plus my extracurriculars.

In 9th grade you don't really get a lot of choice as to which hard classes to to take, so most of my classes are just honors with one AP.

I don't even want to think about junior year where almost all of my classes are AP. x_x

[Baldwin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FourOfSwords', 'G')ood posting all around. Couldn't agree more about the emphasis placed on book reading mentioned by Windmills. I know I will leave myself wide open for some vigorous criticism but here goes anyway:
As an experiment, I feel that the following curiculum should be emphasized in public schools, but not to the exclusion of other subjects:
1) Philosophy
2) Rhetoric(the art of good speaking, not today's version)
3) Gymnastics
4) Music
5) Singing
6) Poetry/Prose
In all sincerity I feel these would produce well rounded students, who would view themselves as citizens, and give them the ability to think critically, not just sit there and learn by rote.
These worked well for Athenians, and the Spartans. The most free thinking society(Athens) and the most militaristic(Sparta) of their times. Something I think that America styles itself as.(free thinking and mlitaristic that is)
A.

[TheDude]

"Bagpipes." Actually there's a Universe of Bagpipes out there.
I assume you mean the Great Highland Bagpipe. I myself play the Irish ("uilleann") pipes. What's the difference? Someone once snobbishly explained that "The difference between the two is that the Irish pipes are a musical instrument." Ouch!
I quite like Scottish pipes myself. Kept from going insane in high school with music - not bagpipes but punk rock, Motown, whatever.
Barely graduated and did plenty of reading/studying that wasn't on the cirriculum - and wasn't worth any credit as a result. That was late 80's.
Each new generation seems to find its own way - you have all these kids yapping away on cell phones, IMing [sp?], not talking to their parents. Maybe their parents aren't worth talking to? If I may say so. Probably a heretical statement.
The European education system winnows out the chaff - in German at least you need to score a certain level on your tests to qualify for the Gymnasium = High School. Otherwise you go to a "trade school," forget the exact term(s) since they don't have a nifty exact cognate in English. In our America of universal education that's an equally odious notion as thinking someone's parents might not be worth the time/trouble. Of course we can't all qualify for certain colleges...and how much is a diploma going to be worth soon anyway?
Anyway with cell phones/internet perhaps our youth will pick up the information they need for the future, and do something with it by the by.

[TWilliam]

On the original topic, some of you might find the following of interest:

American Education History Tour

Might also enjoy this transcript of the acceptance address by John Taylor Gatto, given upon his receipt of the 1991 New York State Teacher of the Year award:

The Seven-Lesson Schoolteacher

I've read a few of his books, and the picture he paints from inside the system is pretty scary...

[Baldwin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', '"')Bagpipes." Actually there's a Universe of Bagpipes out there.
I assume you mean the Great Highland Bagpipe. I myself play the Irish ("uilleann") pipes. What's the difference? Someone once snobbishly explained that "The difference between the two is that the Irish pipes are a musical instrument." Ouch!
I quite like Scottish pipes myself. Kept from going insane in high school with music - not bagpipes but punk rock, Motown, whatever.
Barely graduated and did plenty of reading/studying that wasn't on the cirriculum - and wasn't worth any credit as a result. That was late 80's.
Each new generation seems to find its own way - you have all these kids yapping away on cell phones, IMing [sp?], not talking to their parents. Maybe their parents aren't worth talking to? If I may say so. Probably a heretical statement.
The European education system winnows out the chaff - in German at least you need to score a certain level on your tests to qualify for the Gymnasium = High School. Otherwise you go to a "trade school," forget the exact term(s) since they don't have a nifty exact cognate in English. In our America of universal education that's an equally odious notion as thinking someone's parents might not be worth the time/trouble. Of course we can't all qualify for certain colleges...and how much is a diploma going to be worth soon anyway?
Anyway with cell phones/internet perhaps our youth will pick up the information they need for the future, and do something with it by the by.

[mercurygirl]

The answer to the OP is yes.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here were vast fortunes to be made, after all, in an economy based on mass production and organized to favor the large corporation rather than the small business or the family farm. But mass production required mass consumption, and at the turn of the twentieth century most Americans considered it both unnatural and unwise to buy things they didn't actually need. Mandatory schooling was a godsend on that count. School didn't have to train kids in any direct sense to think they should consume nonstop, because it did something even better: it encouraged them not to think at all. And that left them sitting ducks for another great invention of the modern era - marketing.

[I_Like_Plants]

In the US you get "tracked" so even in those rare high schools that have AP (Advanced Placement) courses, you have to have gotten on the right "track" from about age 10 to get into 'em.

And I can tell you, the vast majority of HS's in the US do not have gymnastics and orchestra and all that stuff. They are essentially as described here earlier, low-security penetentiaries.

Speaking of bagpipes, there's a guy in Waikiki who plays the Scottish ones in full kilt/regalia, the Japanese tourists think it's great. He's a good player as far as I can tell. He probably makes $50 or more a night, and in the day, if you listen around, you can generally hear him practicing in one of the parks.

He's of Japanese ancestry

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mercurygirl', '
')
It's true that the "driven few" can excel, but what about the majority who are being failed and even damaged? That's what worries me.

Anyway, after reading Gatto's articles, it's clear that the real purpose of our schools is not education, and in this sense they are actually quite successful.

[I_Like_Plants]

It's actually Gatto. John Taylor Gatto. You should be able to find the audio of his speeches, I've heard 'em replayed on a local independent radio station*



*Don't try this at home if you live in 99% of the US - in most of the US, listening to NPR takes a bigger antenna and is quite a subversive act.

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'I')t's actually Gatto. John Taylor Gatto. You should be able to find the audio of his speeches, I've heard 'em replayed on a local independent radio station*



*Don't try this at home if you live in 99% of the US - in most of the US, listening to NPR takes a bigger antenna and is quite a subversive act.

[mercurygirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'I') could go on and on. It's been quite a challenge trying to raise my own children's self-esteem and educational level in this system.

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mercurygirl', 'I')'m sorry you've had troubles with schooling. It sounds like you were already aware of some shortcomings. Good observations.

[mercurygirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'O')n the original topic, some of you might find the following of interest:

American Education History Tour

Might also enjoy this transcript of the acceptance address by John Taylor Gatto, given upon his receipt of the 1991 New York State Teacher of the Year award:

The Seven-Lesson Schoolteacher

I've read a few of his books, and the picture he paints from inside the system is pretty scary...

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mercurygirl', 'O')n a side note, I was reading an autobiography of Richard Feynman the other day in which he describes sitting on a board who oversaw choosing school textbooks (of course some time ago).

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mercurygirl', 'O')h crap, TWilliam, I didn't even see that you slipped your links in before me!
Gatto is great, isn't he? I see he's working on a documentary, I hope he succeeds with it.

[WildRose]

I've been reading some of John Taylor Gatto's stuff and finding it very interesting. It suddenly occurs to me why some children win many awards in school and others don't receive any.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'I')'ve been reading some of John Taylor Gatto's stuff and finding it very interesting. It suddenly occurs to me why some children win many awards in school and others don't receive any.