[AirlinePilot]

Once again I don't know where to begin. In the last several months I have had more than a handful of discussions with folks I consider intelligent and aware. These discussions have centered around PO and the coming probable demise of the global economy. What is absolutely freaking blowing me away is the cornucopian malaise that has the masses deep in denial. It's prevalent everywhere. A cogent argument is impossible with anyone but a select few who are seeing little cracks in the edges of the facade. One cannot make a point of fact, a claim based on solid knowledge or undisputed math, without the total denial of the person that is listening. Its even evident in folks body language. The sidelong glances away when its obvious they think your slightly off the deep end, changing of topics, shuffling feet, frowns of disgust, there are many more.

This attitude, this sickness of belief, this terrible loss of situational awareness, is what I believe will be our death blow in western society. Even if I believed there might be a way around this, I think this stumbling block is what derails ANY attempt to mitigate the coming turmoil. It will be due to innaction and failing to timely implement plans which cause our demise. We are going to scrabble and claw our way to maintain the current paradigm. I see it as possibly more damaging than the decline of oil production itself. The headlong rush to maintain the status quo and the lack of vision with regard to where we really need to be, will topple civilization as we know it.

Are you ready? Can anyone ever be? I don't know, but as of now I see preparation for survival as the primary focus of my efforts over the next few years. That and living life to it's fullest in the (hopefully) few years we have left. While I don't expect Mad Max, I do see something ugly in between becoming the reality.

I am convinced the ability to visualize this is not part of current cultural and intellectual levels. No one believes it's possible in modern times.

I just have to bow and shake my head, does no one study history any more?

[PenultimateManStanding]

sucks, doesn't it? I always expected to live to old age. Grandkids giving me the love I bestowed in the past. Doesn't look like that's gonna happen.

[lateStarter]

Spot on. I think that is why there is a sizeable (j/k) exodus underway from places like the US and the UK. While I don't think most of us will survive no matter where we are, the discordance in places like the US and UK will be disturbing to say the least. Initially, if you are already in 'power-down' mode, you will feel the pain less. But ultimately, we are doomed... Plan accordingly!

[dukey]

since we are talking about denial
10 months before 911
someone conducted this little drill
The army deleted this off their webpage .. but thank god someone keeps a copy

Web Page Name

[Daculling]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'O')nce again I don't know where to begin. In the last several months I have had more than a handful of discussions with folks I consider intelligent and aware.

[Jack]

I could have written that post, AirlinePilot - though you probably did it better than I would have.

There are a few, a very few, who listen. The vast majority make it clear that they don't want to hear it. They roll their eyes, talk more loudly, change the subject - yep. I know exactly the behavior pattern you mean. A few do believe. They quietly agree, they tell a few others. I don't know if it does a bit of good.

You say you don't expect Mad Max. Perhaps you should reconsider.

What happens when the grocery store shelves are empty, governmental services fail, and the masses are a little afraid and a lot angry? Did anyone but me note the situation in New Orleans, immediately post-Katrina? Even the police abandoned their duty and joined in the looting.

Is your city different? Is mine? Perhaps in degree. Perhaps. But I wouldn't stake much of a wager on it. The various centrifugal forces in our society rival those in pre-civil war Yugoslavia. There are lots of people in our various nations that hate people of other groups. Will they continue to be peaceful when central authority weakens - or fails? I think not.

When the disruptions and problems of peak oil hit - really, truly, no denial, no cornucopian nonsense, hit - the masses will transform into a howling mob. We will pray for martial law.

I suppose its true. It won't be like Mad Max. It will be considerably worse.

[Chuckmak]

...and here I thought it was just some river in Egypt

[Laughs_Last]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chuckmak', '.')..and here I thought it was just some river in Egypt.

[AirlinePilot]

Well, I do hold out some hope that due to my location I will have support and a community that at least makes an effort to watch out for each other and try to meet the challenges.

While I doubt the Mad Max scenario, I do agree that it IS possible.
I have a lot more ammo to stock up on. Could it be worse, sure hope not, but again all the points Jack brings up are valid.

It's really unbelievable to think people are so naive in their belief that we just won't ever "go there".

[threadbear]

The problem AP, is your tendency to launch into every diatribe about peak oil with conversational icebreakers like updates about the sasquatch, or your belief in fairies, and shape shifting space aliens. Oh...and what about your fixation on 911 conspiracy? You have to give people just a little space and have a little patience and soon you'll have them eating out of your hairy hand.

[mercurygirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'T')he problem AP, is your tendency to launch into every diatribe about peak oil with conversational icebreakers like updates about the sasquatch, or your belief in fairies, and shape shifting space aliens. Oh...and what about your fixation on 911 conspiracy? You have to give people just a little space and have a little patience and soon you'll have them eating out of your hairy hand.

[MacG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'T')his attitude, this sickness of belief, this terrible loss of situational awareness, is what I believe will be our death blow in western society.

[evilgenius]

For me the denial, in the US, centers around the deliberate refusal to adopt alternatives and/or conservation. That is reserved for someone else, a granola head or a techno-geek, not for the masses. The people simply cannot engage in a consensus forming discussion because it is perpetually somebody else's concern. It is just like the Christian church in the States, everything that the congregation as a whole should be doing is deligated to a much overworked, and (as it turns out often) oversexed member of the clergy. Such is the way of the American form of capitalism.

When the shit hits the fan America is going to look around and be absolutely shocked that the secret government hasn't been looking out for them and that the auto makers haven't developed a 200 mpg car. I know so many gripers that feel we are in danger, but they still want to drive a gas guzzler and waste, waste, waste.

[Chuckmak]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Laughs_Last', '[')img]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/Laughs_Last/DenialStopsHere.jpg[/img]

[Ludi]

Personally, I was impressed by how comparatively little violence and looting occurred after Katrina. Much like the situation in Los Angeles after the Northridge quake. People were too scared and shocked to do much; crime plummeted. I don't think we can compare these shocking sudden disasters with the kind of slow (relatively) grinding down to poverty we'll see in the (near) future. I don't think we can know for certain what might occur, but we can try to prepare for likely eventualities.

There is only a tiny handful of people I can talk to in real life about peak oil, and I don't know that any of them are preparing in a meaningful way. A friend bought what I thought was going to be her Zombie Horde hideout in the middle of nowhere, but as far as I can tell she's even more dependent on the grid now than I am. So I don't know anyone in my circle who is making appropriate preparation for hard times, besides myself.

I don't even try to talk about it with family or friends, really. There's sort of no point, since they don't/can't believe it.

[cynicalheretic]

Remember after the crash to shoot everyone in your neighborhood. This will make looting much easier. j/k

[threadbear]

I'd say people do a rapid cost/benefit analysis of the situation, when informed about peak oil, then they try to gauge how much they can realistically do about the situation, understanding that many such catastrophes tend to resolve themselves in unforseen ways.

They are more likely to pray, meditate, or try to visualize a positive outcome than anything else. Bear in mind, the majority of the population has a list as long as their arm of things they are supposed to be afraid of. They're on zoloft to control depression, are overworked, and their kids are deranged. You're adding one more fear to a long list of burdens for them. If you give them a "sinners repent" kind of speech, and expect them to lap it up, you don't know much about human nature. It's like trying to make a living being a de-motivational speaker, putting together talks on the power of negative thinking.

People HAVE to feel like they not only have personal autonomy, but control over great swathes of the cosmos. A better approach to the need to be happy and in control crowd, is to approach it from a different angle. Tell them what a killing you're going to make on your precious metals when the shit hits the fan.

If you don't bundle negative information with an overarching idea that enhances what little control they have, your message will be rejected. If it works for propaganda experts putting together disinformation campaigns, surely it can work for you. It can, it really can, just focus on it, believe it, and you can sell peak oil with a smile and a shoeshine.

[AirlinePilot]

I no longer overtly bring it up. I usually tie it into some part of another discussion as I can. You can tie it into the economy, the Mid East situation, gas prices, etc. There are ways to bring it up without being overly gloomy. I try to make people think it through on their own without "preaching" so to speak. In this way I get a guage for what their level of understanding and conceptual level is about the topic.

There always seems to be blame, lots of it. Usually the big energy corporations and the government get the lions share. Rarely does anyone get that it's an unsustainable paradigm we are currently in.
We are all going to be saved when they open up all the shut in wells out in West Texas. No shit, I've heard this from educated people on more than one occasion. We got plenty right here at home, they're just waitin til it gets really expensive.

I was just attempting to post my thoughts and vent some frustration I guess. There are just too few folks around who see this coming. It's disconcerting and also disapointing at the same time for me.

[max_power29]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'T')here are just too few folks around who see this coming. It's disconcerting and also disapointing at the same time for me.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'P')eople HAVE to feel like they not only have personal autonomy, but control over great swathes of the cosmos.