[kevincarter]

Many times while talking about post Peak crisis comes the idea that society / politicians / the media will portray immigration as a problem. That is absolutely true, but then comes the thought of massive deportations. The more I think about it the more I find it impossible to happen for several practical reasons.

1.Where? Where do you send illegal immigrants? Specially if they destroy all their documents and there is no way to know where are they from. First they are not that stupid and second they are pretty well networked regarding to information, they all know all the legal loops and procedures very well. The thing is, you arrest them and tell them: Where are you from? And let’s imagine they say: Colombia. But, can you prove he is form Colombia? No, he has no passport, no records, no ID, nothing. You can’t just take a plane and drop the guy in Colombia, Colombian authorities won’t take him. Let’s say he says: I don’t remember. What do you do? Put him in jail? Until when? Who pays for that?

2.How? On an energy crisis who is going to waste energy to send immigrants home? A full plane will only take about 300 of them and would cost a fortune, and we are talking millions of people! It could be done by boat but it would still take lots of time and energy

3.Political motives. If the government decides to take such an action it will be seen as a political opportunity for the opposition to prove that they can do better.

And what’s more fun, whatever you do they can always come back!

So I guess massive deportation won’t happen that easy and that we’ll have to manage. How? I have no clue.

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kevincarter', 'T')he more I think about it the more I find it impossible to happen for several practical reasons.

[kevincarter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', ' ')All the supposed prohibitions you present are political problems, not practical problems.

[zoidberg]

Other options for illegal immigrants

1. Work them as slaves till they die
2. Ignore them, and use the police to brutalize/shoot them when they turn to criminal activities to support themselves
3. Ethnically cleanse them


Its been done before. I'm not advocating such inhuman measures but you need to be aware they exist and can be implemented in the right political environment. (ie. an extreme case of peak oil collapse)

[Cobra_Strike]

Sure its possible, but I am betting the people won't be deported...they will be put to work were the are, not paid...and until they die.

Or, people will turn in their neighbors for a 50 gallon gas credit...

[ohanian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kevincarter', '
')
1.Where? Where do you send illegal immigrants? Specially if they destroy all their documents and there is no way to know where are they from.

[eXpat]

I think during a crisis such as the ones discussed here the Gov has to deport immigrants. They have to show the sheeple that they care for the electorate. Foreigners cannot vote.
Besides it is comparatively easy to mount all the circus of tagging aliens, sending them away, etc.
Consider too that they don't necessarily have to send everybody home, out of the borders is good enough. Forced labor will be for citizens, to keep them from rioting and nasty ideas.

[neocone]

Geographic difference are meaningless when the rich separate themselves in guarded gated communities... Gradually the whole world will become a cesspool of squator amid an archipelago of such entities.

Which is pretty much how humanity's history have been. Top 1% enjoys a good life, bottom 98% the poverty, and the 1% in the middle is the middle class.

The endless and local cheap labour supplied by destitute illegals, kept as such by an efficient national ID system and electronic money system where cash will be only used for "criminal" (and labelled as such by the state) transactions, will replicate the old social pyramid.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohanian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kevincarter', '
')
1.Where? Where do you send illegal immigrants? Specially if they destroy all their documents and there is no way to know where are they from.

[Benzin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohanian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kevincarter', '
')
1.Where? Where do you send illegal immigrants? Specially if they destroy all their documents and there is no way to know where are they from.

[pea-jay]

What seems to be missing in this debate is the fact that deportation WON'T be carried out before energy gets too expensive/unavailable because the political status quo wont permit it and after the crisis hits, it simply wont be possible.

A theoretical round-up would be huge. Lets use the 11Million figure, and even say they are 100% Mexican and would have to be bussed 500 miles to the nearest crossing and got 7.5 MPG of diesel. Far fetched but hey why not.

11 Million Illegals would need 200,000 bus trips to go home.
200,000 bus trips going 1000 miles (I assume round trips as we are not leaving the buses in mexico) would require 26.6M gallons of diesel. That is not a great percentage of overall diesel production, but at todays prices still pricey. In the future, it may not be possible because of food shortages. Now there are not that many available buses--1997 census of buses had 129K units so lets say now we are up to 150K buses we are still short and need to dip into the nation's ample supply of school buses. Or we could spread it out and take longer. Either way it will take a lot of time, money and energy. And that assumes the illegals hop on willingly and dont cost local agencies too much in the way of time or energy chasing.

Some may say cram'em back into the rear of a truck, though that wouldnt save much energy as buses are relatively densely packed to begin with and more efficient than a semi.

Putting them on a train may be more efficient though we spent a lot of time and effort in removing rail and discontinuing service for that option to be of much today.

But right now the political will is not there to mass deport. And during and after a crisis the means for doing so will not be there even if the will is.

[Tyler_JC]

We should construct a $100 billion dollar Super Fence armed with heating-seeking missiles and computer controlled dual mounted 50 caliber machine guns

Anyone getting within 500 feet of the fence without a reason to be there would be instantly vaporized. Naturally, we would have to have a couple dozen legitimate entry/exit points in order to conduct trade and commerce.

Then we would have to demand that everyone have a National ID Card in order to use the National Monetary Exchange System (or whatever they called mandatory debit cards).

Only criminals and illegal immigrants would still be using cash.

We round up the cash users and those without National IDs and simply execute them after giving them a year to argue their case. If they succeed in proving they are worthy of being US Citizens, enlist them in the army and give them their Passports, National ID Cards, and National Monetary Exchange Card after a year of service

Leave a couple of large holes in the fence for them to sneak back across the border through. Don't harrass these people. If the Mexican government feels like doing something about them, it's not our problem.

Periodically we would have to move the bodies out of the way with bulldozers. Give amnesty to a few illegals who feel like working for the government as dead-body removing bulldozer drivers.

And for those who don't feel like living in a Police State/Neo-Stalinist Regime....

Maybe just give permanent resident status to those who haven't been causing any trouble, kick out the trouble makers (I don't care where they end up), and hire enough border patrol agents to eliminate illegal immigration and drug smuggling. Lastly, legalizing marijuana would have a dramatically positive effect on the border situation.

Just my two cents...

[Eddie_lomax]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', 'W')hat seems to be missing in this debate is the fact that deportation WON'T be carried out before energy gets too expensive/unavailable because the political status quo wont permit it and after the crisis hits, it simply wont be possible.

A theoretical round-up would be huge. Lets use the 11Million figure, and even say they are 100% Mexican and would have to be bussed 500 miles to the nearest crossing and got 7.5 MPG of diesel. Far fetched but hey why not.

[pea-jay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eddie_lomax', '
')
I would say you are working on logic from the age of oil, millions of soviet and German prisoners were moved in WW2 without the need for fuel.
...
So unless society fractures into lots of groups like the Balkans (in which case we'd have a good old fashioned blood bath), then I would expect any dominant group to try and push all others out in a time of desperation. Once people work out there isn't enough food to get around, and that "they" are therefore threatening their security I reckon things will get ugly.

[Ayoob]

You hippies just don't have the stomach for it, that's why it won't be done. Congratulations, you just increased competition for local resources.

Now you brought this bullshit overpopulation problem into MY neighborhood. Thanks.

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kevincarter', 'B')ut they are problems, huge ones I think.

[Tyler_JC]

See the above post by TJ for my actual opinion on the issue.

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'S')ee the above post by TJ for my actual opinion on the issue.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'S')ee the above post by TJ for my actual opinion on the issue.

[Laurasia]

The powers that be will clamp down on illegal aliens if and when they decide it's time to do it. Right now they are saying one thing and doing another. I pass by a large strip mall everyday on my way to work; many Latinos (legal? Illegal? who knows?) gather here in the morning to wait for prospective employers to come by and pick them up for a day's work. Almost without fail there is a cop car parked across the street watching the proceedings, but I have never seen them intervening. The men know that the cop is watching them, and the cop knows that they know. One day the cop may come and ask to see identification; then the men will know that the political climate is changing. It's all a game dictated by whichever way the political wind is blowing.

Regards,

L.