[oilfreeandhappy]

Ours was at 67, and I lowered it a little further, but my wife started complaining. The big problem for us, is that my Father-in-Law lives with us. Elderly have trouble coping with the cold. So we're holding at 67.

I want to build a Supertight home with a HRV. That's will be my answer.

[dooberheim]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HRR', 'A') program of gradually lowering the thermostat instead of lowering it several degrees at once softens the shock. I could have saved even more energy if I had kept the thermostat at 59 degrees all along, but on those first cold mornings, an indoor temperature of even 67 degrees felt cryogenic. However, I used considerably less heating back in October and November than I do now simply because outside temperatures were much warmer then.

[HamRadioRocks]

Why are there old spouses' tales out there that claim that it's better to keep the thermostat at the same temperature 24/7 than it is to lower it (during the heating season) or raise it (during the air conditioning season) during the times of the day when nobody is at home?

If you take this twisted logic to the extreme, you shouldn't bother to turn down the thermostat when you go away for a week in winter or raise the thermostat when you go away for a week in summer.

[HamRadioRocks]

Let's say that Family A and Family B live in thermally identical houses. Both keep the thermostat at 67 degrees. Both go away for a week (going and returning at the same time), and the outside temperature holds steady at 37 degrees. Family A turns the thermostat down to 37 degrees and then warms the house back up to 67 degrees when they return. Family B keeps the thermostat at 67 degrees for the entire week they are gone. (I made this hypothetical example unrealistic so that certain points become more apparent.)

These Flat Earth Thermostat Users (FETUs) think that Family A uses more energy. Family A's house didn't use any heat at all during the week's vacation. Family B's house used a substantial amount of energy to keep the inside 30 degrees warmer than the outside. Remember now that both houses are thermally identical. If Family B's house didn't use that much energy because of good insulation, the same good insulation in Family A's house would have kept its temperature from falling very much, and less energy would be needed to warm it up. If Family A's house had inferior insulation that would have allowed it to chill down to 37 degrees, then Family B's house with the same inferior insulation would have guzzled an enormous amount of energy to maintain the 67 degree temperature inside.

So where did the old spouses' tales of those FETUs come from? Bueller?

[HamRadioRocks]

Sorry for responding to my own post. This was supposed to be one big message, but there's something wrong with the board that causes it to refuse to print my message. The only way to get everything to post is to post in shifts. Continuing . . .

[HamRadioRocks]

The moral of all this:

[frankthetank]

Another ways to look @ it is to use wood. If i go away under those circumstances, then i'll burn no wood while my dumb ass neighbor burns the same amt (say 7 logs a day). I come back and yeah, i might need to burn an extra log or 3, but i'll get her back up to that temp and in the same token save over 40 logs while i was gone.

I think when you heat with some other then gas/or even oil, you tend to get a better feel for how much your using, because you physically put the wood into the stove.

[HamRadioRocks]

If you have a programmable thermostat, you don't need to maintain a comfortable indoor temperature during the hours nobody is at home. You only need to prevent the pipes from freezing. Even if you HAVE to keep the temperature at 73 degrees when you're at home because you're a closet nudist, let the temperature fall to the mid/upper 50s during the hours you are away. (If the house is well insulated or the weather isn't that cold, the indoor temperature won't drop that low.) Don't be an energy-guzzling idiot and set the "away" temperature to 69 degrees. Yes, it takes time to warm the house back up again, but the point of having a programmable thermostat is to turn it to your desired temperature BEFORE you get home.

[HamRadioRocks]

Conversely, in the summer, set the thermostat to the middle or upper 80s during your "away" hours and set it to the upper 70s (or whatever the desired "at home" temperature is) starting an hour or two before you normally get home.

OK, this is the end of what was supposed to be one long post instead of a series of shorter posts because the board arbitrarily refused to let me post everything I wanted.

[one_more_day]

From what I have read, the people who saved energy with a manual thermostat did so because they did not turn the energy up when returning home. Your scenario involves not turning it down.

More or less, these people found that when the manual thermostat did not automatically give them a warmer environment, they could do without. The manual thermostat was not in and of itself more energy efficient, it was simply the catalyst of discovery.


We have a somewhat similar practice in my house. We keep it at 62 level temperature even though our thermostat is digital. If we get cold, it is more energy efficient to heat a person than to heat a house. We often wear jackets in the house, or drink hot liquids to warm us up.

Although theoretically we could turn it down further when the house is empty, it doesn't make much sense for us. Given that my husband and I work different shifts, some one is always home.

[FoxV]

I have a temperature logger that shows the undeniable proof that lowering your thermostat is better.

When we leave in the morning the temperature rapidly drops 1 degree in the first 3- minutes, another degree in the next hour, then over the course of the next 4 hours the temperature drops another 1 to 2 degrees (weather dependant of course)

the morale is. My house loses heat much faster at 20C than it does at 16C

(I'll setup some screen shots tomorrow, just to prove my geekyness)

[snax]

Ok, here's an obscure devil's advocate scenario:

Assuming the same families A, and B, and respective houses: What happens if during the heating season and after a day away at work, family A, who's heat pump has been idle, must now utilize backup heat from a less efficient electric furnace (a common heat pump extra) to catch up before the heat pump can resume normal operation?

There's going to be an overlap somewhere depending on how much heat is lost and at what point backup heat is employed, but presumably it may actually be possible for family B to use less energy.

Granted, if family A programmed the thermostat or manually adjusted the temperature up more slowly, the extra energy expenditure could be avoided, but it seems a possibility from what little I know about this stuff.

[HamRadioRocks]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('snax', 'O')k, here's an obscure devil's advocate scenario:

Assuming the same families A, and B, and respective houses: What happens if during the heating season and after a day away at work, family A, who's heat pump has been idle, must now utilize backup heat from a less efficient electric furnace (a common heat pump extra) to catch up before the heat pump can resume normal operation?

There's going to be an overlap somewhere depending on how much heat is lost and at what point backup heat is employed, but presumably it may actually be possible for family B to use less energy.

Granted, if family A programmed the thermostat or manually adjusted the temperature up more slowly, the extra energy expenditure could be avoided, but it seems a possibility from what little I know about this stuff.

[snax]

That would be a nice thing to have.

We currently keep the house at 68F during the day because my wife and youngest son are home most of the day, but allow it to drop as low as 60 at night. Unfortunately even with 4 programmable time blocks, the 2 degree threshold for engaging the furnace is unavoidable for reheating the next morning.

I suppose I could just disconnect the furnace, but what would be the fun in that when there are fancy programmable timers to play with?

[Waterthrush]

I wish there would always be an addendum to statements about installing a programmable thermostat: "Or, you can simply turn the thermostat down when leaving the house and up when you return."

- for all of those looking to simplify their lives.

[Waterthrush]

I wish there would always be an addendum to statements about installing a programmable thermostat: "Or, you can simply turn the thermostat down when leaving the house or going to bed and up when you return or arise."

- for all of those looking to simplify their lives.

[HamRadioRocks]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Waterthrush', 'I') wish there would always be an addendum to statements about installing a programmable thermostat: "Or, you can simply turn the thermostat down when leaving the house or going to bed and up when you return or arise."

- for all of those looking to simplify their lives.

[frankthetank]

55F is cold? Even summertime here in S Wi can bring about 40F temps @ night. Every year we go on a camping trip just north of here and sleep in tents. Some nights in late May (when we go) it has dipped down into the low 40'sF. I was never cold, you just dress for it/and have a damn warm sleeping bag. I'm a hot sleeper, so maybe thats the difference between some of us. My wife is never warm enough, and i'm kicking off covers. Flip the card around and bring us to summer time when we can have overnight temps that don't go below 75F with a dewpoint (the important thing here and what makes the tomatoes and corn grow by the foot) can sometimes stay right up into the 70'sF overnight. Try sleeping in that without AC. I can do it, but theres nothing better then taking 3 showers a day/and still feel all sticky when you wake up (no wet dreams here!).

My point being i'd rather wake up in 55F temp then a 80F one with lots of humidity. (summer in WI)........

[FoxV]

and for those that care, here's the undeniable proof that I spend way too much time thinking about this stuff...



The high temperature plateau is the evening setting while we are home (20C). The low temperature plateau is the overnight setting (17C). And the spike is when we defrost the Cryo-chamber when we get up in the morning (the wiggle in the readings is when the furnace turns on)

But what this clearly shows is that the temperature drops very rapidly for the first couple of degrees but then slows down as it gets colder (also notice that temperature rise also slows down as the house gets warmer)

So if you're heating the house at the high temperature, you're fighting very rapid heat loss, so the over all energy you are putting into the house is greater, even though you have to spend an hour re-heating the house when you get home

btw, the low temperature threshold is 15C which has never been breached, even when it dropped -30C last year

[snax]

I'm just amused that you had the forethought and means and motivation to plot your temps every 5 minutes. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the datapoints were computer generated though.