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F-22. The most advanced fighter in the world.

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: F-22. The most advanced fighter in the world.

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sun 04 Feb 2007, 00:00:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Free', ' ')
This will result in a competition for hearts and minds for the people within the spheres of influence (see cold war) - it just doesn't help if you have the image of a pariah nation there, although pariah-parameters can be flexible.
this is where I'm thinking the psychology will change dramatically. I would expect to see, if a global die-off is proceeding in a terrifying way and everyone knows it, a complete free pass for governments to act ruthlessly. The whole idea of "pariah" states, whether applied to North Korea, Israel, or The United States, would become irrelevant. The "hearts and minds" everywhere will look to leadership and authority for security. And the authorities in the various countries will look to power calculations. Also, the ability of governments to provide security and energy will be the measure of their worth to citizens of the respective countries. If the government of, say, the US, is unable to preserve order, then its reason for existence will collapse; same for China, Russia, or anyone else. I would expect that that will be the big test: how do citizens behave in a dying global system? The main thing, to me, is that it probably won't be anything like what we have now. I think you could expect all media, which are in corporate hands, after all, to completely tow the line. Multinational corporations will look to government/military authority to save their asses just like everyone else. Dissent will vanish with very little need for coercion. People will be eager to help a collective effort which will mean a sort of hyper-nationalism. Weak nations will perish. We're talking about a global die-off of billions of people. This is what I see coming if there is no miracle techno-fix. First phase anyway. Who knows what phase two would bring.
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Re: F-22. The most advanced fighter in the world.

Unread postby Free » Sun 04 Feb 2007, 00:11:53

Yes that's a good point and quite a likely scenario I have to admit - we probably all end up living in Stalinist states no matter in which sphere of influence we are.
And if you live in a "free country" you likely get crushed depending on what the horse trading of the big powers has in the cards for you...
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Re: F-22. The most advanced fighter in the world.

Unread postby pedalling_faster » Sun 04 Feb 2007, 12:33:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', ' ')I would expect to see, if a global die-off is proceeding in a terrifying way and everyone knows it, a complete free pass for governments to act ruthlessly.


they are already behaving as if they have a free pass - to poison their own citizens. there's a Superfund site near Tracy where uranium warhead triggers were tested for many years by Lawrence Livermore. the dust is not staying in one place.

of course, if you have a cancer cluster and multiple sources of pollution, who is to say what caused the cancer ?

"gloves off" ? "dark new era" ?

the United States has had the gloves off since the end of World War 2, in terms of acting with moral impunity. & has started punching much harder, after taking a slight breather after the Vietnam War.

as far as "dark new era" - in terms of killing civilians, the US military has been quite proficient at this; it's not an "in the future" kind of thing.

on Clinton's watch, 1.5 to .5 (Madeleine Albright concurred with the latter figure, saying it "was worth it") million Iraqi civilians were killed by sanctions, though having hundreds of tons of depleted uranium dust (America's nuclear waste) dumped on your countryside (by Bush 41 & Bush 43) did not help either. pretty dark for the Iraqi's, i would say.
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Re: F-22. The most advanced fighter in the world.

Unread postby Niagara » Sun 04 Feb 2007, 16:02:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PolestaR', 'T')he F-22 has a long way to go to beat the 767....
Image

The 767 had nothing to do with it. The twin towers were plane crash proof. A single-engine Cessna would have done the job on that fateful day....

...with a little help from some shape charges, enough thermite to remain in the molten state for a month, plus some sub-basement charges powerful enough to be detected by seismography.
Remember: 73.3% of statistics are made up
and the other 23.6% are wrong
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Re: F-22. The most advanced fighter in the world.

Unread postby nemo » Sun 04 Feb 2007, 16:17:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')odwin's Law is a natural law of Usenet named after Mike Godwin concerning Usenet "discussions". It reads, according to
the Jargon File:

As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one
.

Something very similar to Godwin's law could probably be formulated about web forums and 9/11 conspiracy theories :cry:
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Re: F-22. The most advanced fighter in the world.

Unread postby TITAN » Sun 04 Feb 2007, 17:11:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')o confront the F-22-led “Blue Air” collection, the joint force mustered its best “Red Air” threat—front-line F-15s, F-16s, and Navy F/A-18 Super Hornets. The F-22’s team blitzed the opposition with a favorable 241-to-two kill ratio.


Who are we planning on invading that's armed with F15's and 16's? Isreal?

Last I heard we were getting our butts handed to us by a bunch of guys with a battery, a spool of wire, and some RDX they harvested out of a 50 year old artillery shell.



Many countries besides the us and israel own those 2 airframes. We make alot of money selling them spare parts...

Just one example: Venezuela wants to sell Iran their F16s
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Re: F-22. The most advanced fighter in the world.

Unread postby max_power29 » Mon 05 Feb 2007, 04:29:05

Oh joy I can't wait until all these sweet new military toys are dropping D.U., phosphorous, chemicals, plagues, and bombs on us using SPR jet fuel during martial law.

At least the arabs and persians will have had benefactors supplying them with RPGs and stuff. Americans will have to fend for themselves.
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Re: F-22. The most advanced fighter in the world.

Unread postby DarkDawg » Mon 05 Feb 2007, 14:03:30

Ok, first of all the article is from Air Force Magazine, an unbiased publication?

Secondly, the Northern Edge exercises pitted obsolete American jets against the Raptor: F-15's and F16's. A high "killl" ratio would be expected pitting cutting edge technology against obsolete equipment.
Has the Raptor been "proven" against the best jets the Russians have to offer?

Thirdly, the pilots were Americans. Ok, they are good, but not necessarily the best pilots in the world. Lucky for them, that British, French, Israeli, and IAF pilots are all allies. Here's a reference before you flame me....and another
Have the Raptor pilots been "proven" against the best pilots of the world?

All this talk about air superiority is easy when you're talking about Iraq or some other small-time air force that the U.S. has faced in real-world combat in recent years over familiar terrain. It's all relative. Fly a few of those Raptors over Moscow untouched and maybe I'll be convinced.

Air superiority has as much to do with logistics, intelligence, and strategy as it has to do with technology.
Have those things been "proven" against other world powers?

I for one hope we will never need to know the answers to these questions.
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Re: F-22. The most advanced fighter in the world.

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Mon 05 Feb 2007, 15:21:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TITAN', 'M')any countries besides the us and israel own those 2 airframes. We make alot of money selling them spare parts...

Just one example: Venezuela wants to sell Iran their F16s

OK...now you've got to love this logic. We sell F16's to "hostile" countries. That gives us an excuse to build the f22, which we will inevitably end up selling to them, and so on. The USSR collapsed, so now we're manufacturing an arms race with ourselves.
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The way things were before
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Re: F-22. The most advanced fighter in the world.

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 05 Feb 2007, 15:46:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DarkDawg', 'H')ere's a reference before you flame me...

CS Monitor

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')et, while the Indian Air Force designed the exercises to India's advantage - forcing pilots to fight "within visual range" rather than using America's highly advanced "beyond visual range" sensing equipment - both observers and participants admit that Indian aircraft and personnel performed much better than expected.

The Su-30 is a great plane. The venerable F-16 is getting old. That's why the F-22 exists.
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Re: F-22. The most advanced fighter in the world.

Unread postby TITAN » Mon 05 Feb 2007, 21:49:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TITAN', 'M')any countries besides the us and israel own those 2 airframes. We make alot of money selling them spare parts...

Just one example: Venezuela wants to sell Iran their F16s

OK...now you've got to love this logic. We sell F16's to "hostile" countries. That gives us an excuse to build the f22, which we will inevitably end up selling to them, and so on. The USSR collapsed, so now we're manufacturing an arms race with ourselves.



Really helps prove the fact that this country is indeed run by the military-industrial complex.

We get rid of our boring enemies and create new and exciting ones, just so a bunch of high level assholes can make a shit-load of money...

We are the ones that 'leaked' nuclear weapons and icbm info to China. And now look how they have advanced. If our empire survives the next 2-6 years, China will be our greatest created adversary yet...
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Re: F-22. The most advanced fighter in the world.

Unread postby Subjectivist » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 21:13:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he U.S. Air Force is laying the groundwork for the F-22 Raptor to serve another 42 years. That means the world’s first fifth-generation fighter, which entered service in 2006, could fly until 2060.

To do so, the Raptor must remain competitive with new Russian and Chinese fighters as well as rival jets still on the drawing board. It will use open architecture computer systems, new weapons, new sensors, and artificial intelligence to stay a step ahead of the competition.

According to Warrior Maven, the Air Force is preparing a list of upgrades for the F-22 that would make up a mid-life update, currently scheduled to begin in 2024. The updates would ensure that a fighter jet first proposed in the 1980s, will have the ability to serve out to 2060 if necessary. Warrior Maven says the service is emphasizing several features: killing enemy jets at farther ranges, more efficiently processing a flood of sensor output, dominating enemy aircraft into the near future, and finally, adding new sensors, weapons, and other capabilities to the Raptor as needed.

To that end, the Air Force wants to switch to a system of common IP protocol standards that would allow new electronics to integrate with the F-22’s computer system. This is the foundation of the upgrade, allowing the other hardware upgrades to take place. Other updates include a lightweight distributed architecture system (DAS), which a network of infrared cameras pointing in all directions to increase pilot situational awareness. The Air Force also wants new antennas that can broadcast and receive without ruining the jet’s stealthy profile, as well as for the F-22 to have the ability to electronically share data through the antennas with friendly air, land, and sea assets.

The artificial intelligence aspect is the most intriguing part of the future Raptor update. Think of a Raptor’s artificial intelligence as a software version of R2-D2 from Star Wars. The AI could process the constant stream of incoming data bombarding the pilot from a variety of sources, including the air-to-air radar, missile warning systems, the DAS, and even ground forces, other aircraft, and ships at sea. The AI could analyze the data and then prioritize, organize, and display the data for the pilot. Freed of the need to look at every new incoming data point and determine if it was useful, the pilot could develop and execute a plan faster than his opponents, not to mention just fly the jet.

Is it possible to future-proof the F-22 four decades in advance? Yes and no. Forty-two years is a long time, and new technologies could evolve that we can’t even imagine right now. The most important part of the upgrade is the “plug and play” computer system, allowing the Raptor to adapt to the changing times and incorporate these new technologies decades down the road. As long as the Raptor can adapt to meet the threat, it should have a fighting chance.

That said, the 2060 timeline isn't a hard one. The Air Force’s F-22 replacement, Penetrating Counter Air, is expected to enter service in the 2030s. As long as the sixth-generation jet doesn’t take 30 years to fully replace the F-22, the Raptor fleet should be retired well before its 50th birthday.


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