[crapattack]

Used to be a powerdowner, as per Monte's and Richard Heinberg's definition. Am now more in the doomer category although I believe lots of well-prepared folks will survive. I don't tend to "shout about it" anymore though, most of my energy these days is selfishly going into saving my own & friends asses. I don't believe any amount of talk will force a sudden reversal, stopping distances are, afterall just about physics. And even if there was the will I just don't see how we can re-tool our energy systems in time to prevent collapse simply due to the scale of the project - despite that I and many people would like to believe otherwise. That won't prevent me, however, from switching to alternatives and trying to convince as many folks as possible.

[Bas]

alot will depend on how much time we will have between "peakoil" at which point prices will explode but oil will still be abundant and the point at which production really starts to collapse.

With these kind of uncertainties I think you can't blame people from changing their visions on the future every now and then and that's what has made this poll so interesting; it shows what we think on average and I think we can sum up with saying that we as a whole expect alot from the powerdown scenario but that ultimate doom is certainly on our minds and considered a real possibility.

[MonteQuest]

As time goes on, I am becoming increasingly convinced that change will come only when we hit that wall, not before. The change will be coping and adapting. Forget fixes and transition.

[SeasonOfPain]

My ideal would be to be a PowerDowner. However, since humanity seems firmly pre-disposed towards avoiding immediate discomfort even if it means more proximate extinction, I would probably be considered a Doomer (i.e. a realist). To balance my ideals I choose the combo of the two.

Technology will not make an iota of difference, because it won't change the way humans have evolved mentally. If we stave off resource depletion, then overpopulation will simply bite us in some other fashion. It's not a situation that can be "solved" or "fixed".

[TorrKing]

I think there is lacking a choice on the poll. I feel more like a PowerDoomer.

[oowolf]

I "powered-down" already. I'm prepared to survive a sudden collapse of industrial civilization. I continue to use things like the net but I'm not dependent on outside sources for daily existence.

I've stockpiled most things (clothing,matches, ammo, etc) to keep me supplied for the rest of my life--I have 6 dozen toothbrushes!

However, I'm so jaded I don't really care about living to 100. A traumatic injury could happen anytime. If life becomes unbearably painful there's always the ol' 45.

[crapattack]

Good for you Oowolf, and right what you say about the injury. Having the community of skills is good, hopefully you'll be lucky and have a medic, but no guarantee. In post-collapse world painkillers are going to be priceless. If you don't have a '45 you can fall on a spike.

[Wednesday]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Torjus', 'I') think there is lacking a choice on the poll. I feel more like a PowerDoomer.

[gg3]

Painkillers aren't going to be priceless if people have the foresight to:

a) Note the locations of willow trees whose bark can be used to prepare tea. This is the natural source of aspirin, the safest of all pain relievers. Get some practice preparing and using this for routine headaches and fevers, starting with a dose that you expect will be too small, and gradually working your way up during subsequent headaches until you find a dose that is equivalent to two regular aspirin.

b) Obtain seeds for the opium poppy, Papaver Somniferum, and plant them as ornamentals in a reasonably safe location (this is legal just as long as you don't slit open the parts of the plant where the opium accumulates). Keep them coming up every year. Do not under any circumstances use opium recreationally because it is after all the prototypical addictive narcotic and the risk of addiction is very high for most people. However it is worthwhile learning the technique of turning the raw plant sap into a form that can be smoked, so you can do it if there is a need. If you are in serious pain it will knock out the pain as effectively as morphine, and when used in that manner only, the risk of dependency is very low. If the shit hits and society breaks, no one's going to enforce the laws against cutting open opium poppies, so by the time painkillers truly become scarce, you can produce all the opium you & your tribe will ever need for accidents & emergencies.

Save the .45 for defense if outlaws come near.

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'A')s time goes on, I am becoming increasingly convinced that change will come only when we hit that wall, not before. The change will be coping and adapting. Forget fixes and transition.

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'D')o not under any circumstances use opium recreationally because it is after all the prototypical addictive narcotic and the risk of addiction is very high for most people. However it is worthwhile learning the technique of turning the raw plant sap into a form that can be smoked, so you can do it if there is a need.

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'A')s time goes on, I am becoming increasingly convinced that change will come only when we hit that wall, not before. The change will be coping and adapting. Forget fixes and transition.

[Bas]

I was raised during the eighties, JPL my father was sort of Green and taught me about global warming and the running out of oil when i was about 8, the emphasys lay heavily on global warming though. What I'm trying to say is that I always believed global warming was going to happen, and that we would do something about it in time (you know how kids are). Also in the 90's there were more and more reports on climate change on tv in this country, and everybody took it for absolutely true except that we didn't know how soon we would notice it and to what extend.
(which we still don't, but it's getting clearer)

Imagine my suprise when I went online some years ago and talked to Americans who flatout denied pretty much the existence of CO2 Kinda made me cynical trying to convince them but I'm glad it's being taken much more serious over there now. Irony wants that my father once worked for exxon, the same company that has been sponsoring the disinformation campaign concerning global warming in the US...

Anyway, my whole family votes green and have been for years but it hasn't made the impact we were hoping for either (about 12% of the votes in the late 90's and only half that today)(In holland that is btw)

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', 'A')nyway, my whole family votes green and have been for years but it hasn't made the impact we were hoping for either (about 12% of the votes in the late 90's and only half that today)(In holland that is btw)

[Aimrehtopyh]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '.')..my father was sort of Green and taught me about global warming and the running out of oil when i was about 8...Imagine my suprise when I went online some years ago and talked to Americans who flatout denied pretty much the existence of CO2...

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aimrehtopyh', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '.')..my father was sort of Green and taught me about global warming and the running out of oil when i was about 8...Imagine my suprise when I went online some years ago and talked to Americans who flatout denied pretty much the existence of CO2...

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', 'A')nyway, my whole family votes green and have been for years but it hasn't made the impact we were hoping for either (about 12% of the votes in the late 90's and only half that today)(In holland that is btw)

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '
')
You kind of remind me of my father actually, though he must be a lot older than you. He actually had a burn out at the beginning of the nineties over, among some other things, the issue of global warming/the environment. Sad to say he hasn't really recovered since

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '
')Hi Bas,

Ouch. I know one or two people that had the same burn-out. It's the feeling of impotance that gets to you. I'm sorry about your dad.

I went to our nearest city today to buy some supplies I couldn't get locally - Rennes. These days I don't leave the smallholding much (not much point, really) and I had a mental note to trim my beard and put on some clean clothes (I spent the weekend pruning fruit trees and everything was a bit green-stained).

Then I thought- bugger it! What am I trying to prove? My wife & I got in the car, shovelled seed catalogues and bits of hay off the driver's seat and I (for one) went to town in my usual kit, plus my trusty all-weather combat jacket (cos it looked like rain was on its way). Bought our stuff and then had a nice meal, sat next to all the guys with the mobile phones and the suits.

Over the meal my wife & I talked (and argued - but nicely) about the cost of certain things post peak and if we should have bought more of the stuff I favour (like carbon-fibre tool handles) or hers' - (suitable trees so we can grow and make our own tool-handles).

I wonder what they thought of us? Only time will tell (grin). But I don't feel despondent right now - the time-lines are slowly catching up with us ;o)

JPL

[johnmarkos]

I was reading Bruce Sterling's latest "State of the World" conversation and I came across this gem about the optimist vs. pessimist debate. In one awesome paragraph, he shows the whole controversy to be quite silly. It made me think of this group.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bruce Sterling', 'T')o do serious futurism you need to think historically. The future is a kind of history that hasn't happened yet. If someone asked if you were optimistic or pessimistic about the 19th century, that question would have no meaning. If you wrote a book about the 19th century and you said it was the worst of all possible centuries and that only glum, terrible, and degrading things happened then, you'd be clearly fraudulent. You wouldn't be considered a great historian; it'd be obvious to everybody that you had some kind of bee in your bonnet.