[hi-fiver]

I'm a 56 year old ex-marine VietNam veteran, and even when I was an 18 yr old growing up in Boulder Colorado( for those of you to young to remember) Boulder Colorado was like the San Francisco of the Mid West, we knew the MAN'S system sucked. What has taken this corrupt system so long to colapse? Ya sure, all the hi light politicals of the time ended up selling out - So did I for that matter, cause I ended up with a daughter in '77.,But the cause has never vanished... We used to talk in the early 70's that when peopel our age got into positions of power, of how we would change things - pot would be legal for one thing...And money is not the name of the American God. I swear, nothings changed and I just as guilty as the next guy/gal. I sold out to the American Dream and the only thing it has brought me is the American Nightmare of gluttony and over-consumtion. The machine seems to grind every-one down, and the smart ones talk about how they will survive in their little enclaves, hope-ing the rest of the world will just go away. How can we surive by ignoring the ones we don't aggree with? I certainly can't agrue with the likes of "monte", but somewhere I have to find hope, even though that hope may seem like I want the impossible. At this point, I know we can only count on poliltitions to provide the same old same old, even though some of these people are the same ones that were "Freakers" back in my day of the 'Radical 60"s. What happened to these people? I truly thought things would be different by now. I know my excuse...What's your's.

[Heineken]

Monte's message is more hopeful than you may realize. Yes, he's crotchety, but his proposals for change are rational and are among the few that would actually be effective in terms of keeping the biosphere alive and humans secure within it.

Until our voices unite in wanting REAL change, and putting an end to the sell-out, your frustrations will continue.

[turmoil]

Hi-fiver,

Thanks for joining the site and giving youngons like me a snapshot of history.

In my opinion, progress has taken so long because as Guy Duancy says, we humans are clever but not always wise. For instance we are clever enough to figure out how to use resources, but not wise enough to see our own exponential growth against finite resources. But, evolution takes time and we are just going through our overshoot process. Population bottlenecks are much needed in order for a species to get its priorities straight.

But we have a lot of work to do, and I think having someone to blame will at least help get the word out: http://www.exxposeexxon.com/

[dinopello]

I'm 40, but I have a 56 yo brother so have a little exposure to that gen. My people growing up, I think emulated the 60's in terms of the drug use and sex but generally were apolitical and weren't out to change the world. Now, that I am involved in the real political and public policy arena, I see people all the time that get frustrated at just how hard it is to turn the ship or make even the most modest of changes. Then when a change is made another group pushes back 90% of the way. It's slow, frustrating, maddening at times to both gauge where people want to go, combine that with what's "right" and actually do something when there are also other extrememly powerful forces (corporate and individual) out there as actors as well. People give up under those conditions. I've given up at least a dozen times. I've learned to appreciate baby steps. On the other hand, I've heard that things are non-linear and can be made to change rapidly given the right conditions and/or stimulus. I have yet to see that on any large issues.

My take on what happened to the 60's generation is that they had huge goals and completely unrealistic expectations and really didn't appreciate the hard and constant work it would take and the fact that they never really could create the world they desired but maybe make little differences along the journey. I guess a few did do that. Plus, they were swimming upstream with increasing wealth available (due almost entirely to increasing cheap energy availability), it was even more difficult to maintain consensus that people should care about anything other than enriching themselves and consuming.

I mean, what can you do, but do what you can ? Start with realistic expectations, don't give up and keep a sense of humor. Change comes slow, until it comes fast.

[128shot]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'M')onte's message is more hopeful than you may realize. Yes, he's crotchety, but his proposals for change are rational and are among the few that would actually be effective in terms of keeping the biosphere alive and humans secure within it.

Until our voices unite in wanting REAL change, and putting an end to the sell-out, your frustrations will continue.

[Ludi]

There is nowhere you can find a single post of Monte's in which he "wishes for the end of civilization" in the sense you imply. He wishes for the end of our self-destructive practices, because otherwise, we truly are doomed.

[master_rb]

128shot, I think you're wrong, country is not only roads and land, it's not a location only, it's also family and other personal things, i'm sure there a people who don't like a current country living in and still stay in it

moving out is not a conflict of interest if you suggesting that

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hi-fiver', ' ')I truly thought things would be different by now. I know my excuse...What's your's.

[TWilliam]

Here's one more for your list Whippet...

A Harsh Dose of Reality - most of the original hippies were children of the emerging middle-to-upper-middle-class that developed in the post-war boom.

They were, compared to previous generations, 'spoiled rich kids' enjoying a free ride to 'higher education' courtesy of mummy and daddy, and as such they had leisure to indulge their exuberant idealism and 'higher principles'.

Until mummy and daddy discovered that junior was not interested in The American Dream as mummy and daddy had expected them to be, and the free (joy) ride abruptly ceased.

As Mark Twain noted, "principles have little force except when one is well fed."

[Colorado-Valley]

I'd say the "spoiled rich kids" of that generation were George W. Bush and his buds at the fraternities who had very little interest in saving the world.

"Toga Party!" and getting drunk every day is about as deeply as they thought.

[nth]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')here is nowhere you can find a single post of Monte's in which he "wishes for the end of civilization" in the sense you imply. He wishes for the end of our self-destructive practices, because otherwise, we truly are doomed.

[Kristen]

Well I'm 21 and I must stand up for my generation. I work two jobs, go to school, am so racked in debt I feel like my heads going to explode. This war isn't our war. As we grow older our hopes of the future our parents had fades. Not to mention overmedicated. I just read the other day that one in every three teenagers is on a combination of physcotrophic medications. That's right COMBINATION. We're over medicated, over worked and to the point of exaustion. But i do my best to conserve energy. I walk to work and school, turn lights off when i leave, at least i'm trying

[Tinman]

Most people have this view on life at your age it's nothing new. Your generation's no more special then the last. Trying worring about a draft. Or Japan and the Nazis. Or your country in a Civil War where more perish in one Battle then most wars that came before. Or being a slave. Or having your people exterminated. You think you know trouble, you have no clue how bad things could get.

[max_power29]

Don't assume so much, I think Kristen has an idea of how bad things are gonna get.

[killJOY]

Even if we assume that, like me, Monte wishes for collapse and death, there's one point everyone overlooks:



It doesn't matter what he or I or anyone else thinks.

[Kristen]

I do imagine the worst, but i have no fear of it. five hundred years ago not that many people even lived until 21. I have to enjoy life for what it is. Taste, Touch, Smell, Vision, Music.... Gottaq indulge the senses while they are here. You can take away all my rights and resources, but you cannot stop me from accessing the power of imagination within my own mind. (Unless a libodomi was done.)

[Kristen]

I do imagine the worst, but i have no fear of it. five hundred years ago not that many people even lived until 21. I have to enjoy life for what it is. Taste, Touch, Smell, Vision, Music.... Gottaq indulge the senses while they are here. You can take away all my rights and resources, but you cannot stop me from accessing the power of imagination within my own mind. (Unless a libodomi was done.)

[nth]

I do notice that the younger folks are more egocentric. They are just living day by day. There goes the savings rate. Capitalistic consumerism wins again.

[Tinman]

2: Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher, vanity of vanities! All is vanity.
3: What does man gain by all the toil at which he toils under the sun?
4: A generation goes, and a generation comes, but the earth remains for ever.
5: The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.
6: The wind blows to the south, and goes round to the north; round and round goes the wind, and on its circuits the wind returns.
7: All streams run to the sea, but the sea is not full; to the place where the streams flow, there they flow again.
8: All things are full of weariness; a man cannot utter it; the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.
9: What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.
10: Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new"? It has been already, in the ages before us.
11: There is no remembrance of former things, nor will there be any remembrance of later things yet to happen among those who come after.
Ecclesiastes, chapter 1