[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('argosant', 'O')ne thing I am noticing a lot among people in-the-know about peak oil is a huge surge of people with many different rigid, dogmatic ideologies about how they believe things should be. Preachy environmentalist types bantering on about the evils of our modern ways, nutcases hell-bent on teaching the supposed "virtues" of "community" in the upcoming horrors. This scares the hell out of me because I am an highly individualistic person who is anti-dogma of any kind. "Community" is a fuckin' buzz word right now and people are speaking so much of it. Moral arrogance is rife. I think it's horseshit; I hate "community" as I see it as synonymous with totalitarianism and all other nasty things about human nature. Spare me from it; I think I will actually take death instead once things finally come around and go nuts.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '.')
Anyway, it's just interesting to see what scares other people. I guess the "I am a rock, I am an island" types, find community scary....

[Narz]

Why all the emphasis on "wilderness survival"? Agriculturalists with large armies have dominated the world (with a few exceptions like Temujin) for thousands of years, what makes you think that's going to change?

Besides, I'd rather die younger in a community in a woman's arms than out in the woods snaring rabbits and digging up roots (I'd rather have a home, a cage full of rabbits, a field full of roots and die in a blaze of glory if I have to defending it, ideally within a community that also cares about our rabbits, roots and roofs).

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') think it's kind of strange to equate "community" with "totalitarianism." It seems like, if some folks want to live together and call it a community, that's not really anything like totalitarianism.

[TreebeardsUncle]

Hi.
Why do folks think that peak oil is such a big deal in that it will drastically change society? When do you expect the impacts to occur? After all, ethanol and biodeisel production are ramping up. (Am not being serious here.) Seems like a lot of folks around here are clinically depressed and very paranoid. Also, community comes from family. Are you all opposed to that too?
Lates.
g

[WildRose]

Hi, Argosant, welcome to the site.

When I read your original post, I recognized myself as one who can harp on about "community". (Everyone - I hope I don't come off as preachy!) Some strengths I see in community include a wealth of resources (human and otherwise), physical and emotional support, working towards common goals, even strength in numbers.

That being said, I have had exposure to community which I couldn't handle. It was a church group, and it wasn't that it was a cult or had radical ideas or anything like that, it was just a neighborhood church group. What I didn't like about it was that I felt like my decisions and ideas were under constant scrutiny and there was a fair bit of criticism of people's actions among members, whether it was a childrearing issue or how someone spent his or her money. Not only that, but the level of socializing expected within the church group was overwhelming to me.

So, Argosant, I can see your point about ideologies and dogma in communities. Sometimes closed communities can implode on themselves because they don't have input of ideas from outside the community. I don't know what the solutions to these problems would be - perhaps allowing people to have a little more privacy and to keep some aspects of their lives separate from the group. These are issues that have to be dealt with successfully for communities to exist and to be strong.

[TreebeardsUncle]

Hi.
Communities work best if they grow outward from families, if a common sense of place and history is shared, and if their is a commonality in thought. It is a lot like a marriage in that it is best if people are compatible and want similar things and have similar values. Difference and conflict can make it hard to deal which is another reason why many communities are coercive and oppressive in enforcing conformity.
g

[GregEllis]

Narz,
The point of at least having adeptness in survival skills is as a contingency, IN CASE a horde of hungry thirst dislocated people come over the hill looking for ANYTHING to keep them alive. Sure, that's where guns would come in, but even well-armed groups are overcome if the horde is large enough. Military history is full of examples of elite, crack troops being overcome merely because they were outnumbered by a more desperate and/or ferocious yet primitive group.

Nobody says the breakdown of society and total anarchy is written in stone. And if they do, those Doomers are no different from the techno-utopians, who are excessively optimistic and need a little more fear in them.

However, when you are going into an unknown situation, you need as many continences as possible and to train for them. That is why the U.S. special operations groups are just so damned effective. They train for countless situations and acquire the skills to pull it off. That's all they do outside of wartime is train.

The point of many here is, sure, live your normal life and farm on your plot of land. BUT, have contingencies, and acquire the skills needed to execute them. That's all. Otherwise, if one of those events occurs, you're up shit creek.