[grabby]

sPENDING BILLIONS of dollars only to actually worsen the environment by actually causing increase in energy use, is NOT A SOLUTION but a kind of "something to do, throw money at it."


To even support or start non sustainable aggriculture on TOP of all-the-oil-you-can-pump-and-use-at-max-capacity is just not the best option.

If the thought is to DO SOMETHIG then that person just doesn't get it either.

You see, we cannot do something. we cannot do anything, whatever we do is worse than doing nothing (more wasteful)

you have to do SOMETHING then walk or drive a bike this is useful.

Activists can actually make things worse if the activity is more energy intensive than not doing anything at all.

Getting us into carbon buying and selling while we burn down rainforests which is so silly it defys description.



Electing a politician willing to spend money on something that LOOKS like it works and yet makes things WORSE is actually a bad move.

a politician that does nothing would be BETTER for the environment, at least we would not get into burning food and ruining the land.


the only prez who really made a real difference was J carter
no kidding he passed a 55 mph law it worked. that saved more gas than all the alternate fuels we produce today.

but it is political suicide, so it wont happen.

Anything that really works will not be popular.
Anything that is popular will not work

So it is better to have someone who spends less.

[gego]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('grabby', 'I')f oObama got it he would at least pass the 55 mph speed limit.

[grabby]

55 will solve nothing but it actually DOES decreases oil use, it was the major reason for the 1970 oil drop pff when the shortage hit. They only passed it because it was necessary.

Ethanol production does nothing to decrease energy use, it increases it.

Think about that for a while.

Also, Obbamm is good cause he is throwing money at an insoluble problem?


Peak oil is not a problem with a solution, it is the end of a way of life, and OBAMM wants to keep on keeping on.

Time to elect ralph nader.

[grabby]

It really doesn't matter what you try to do there is nothing TO do.

Spending money on ethanol will just waste oil faster than not making ethanol and will increase CO2 in the environment more than not making ethanol and burning it on top of all the 84 million barrels a day.
, so I would vote against it.

Ethanol will make things worse, cutting back is the best way.

[grabby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('loveandrage', ' ') Why not rip Europe for not getting the U.S. to sign the Kyoto Treaty?

[TreebeardsUncle]

Hi.

There are 5 modes of transportation that will be effective in saving energy: walking, riding on mammals, bicycling, using boats and ships run on wind and sail power, and using trains (run on wood, which is the least effective way of saving energy). Everything else will just make problems worse. During this century we will see how modern industrial society will ultimately fail by drawing down resources sequentially to the point of great depletion. Expect the Talaban Afghani way of life to outlive both that of the Russians and the Americans. As a Talabani interviewed by a reporter writing for the SF Chronicle said "It took 10 years" to beat the Russians and wear them down and he admonished the Americans not to be that stupid. They will just see how many bodies have to pile up in order to turn American public opionion against operation "Enduring Freedom." I suspect Americans are unwilling to maintain wars more than 10 years even for the sake of their motoring convenience. And soon (within 50 years), they won't be able to in the Middle East and Central Asia.
g

[grabby]

Good points. I would like to say I wish Obbamm well. Hope he studies a bit more before he spends money. Same for all the others.
It really doesn't matter what group is in charge, it won't change what is going to happen at all, the problem will still be unsolved either way, throwing money at it won't solve it.

The problem cannot be delayed, nothing wil touch it.
It won't make a speck of difference at all, with any kind of proposed solution in the long run.

Peak oil is looking in the mirror and seeing wrinkles.
We are no longer able to sow wild oats with energy.

[loveandrage]

Grabby,

The gov't is corrupt.
I believe there are solutions.
You do not.

"The problem cannot be delayed, nothing wil touch it.
It won't make a speck of difference at all, with any kind of proposed solution in the long run."

I believe we have more time than you apparently do. We should be able to agree on those differences. I believe the solutions must first focus on taking back power to the people to represent themselves absent of big money influence. I think this is paramount to peak oil self correction, and comes before any details of continued pork, favoritism, or earmarks. Obama today is one of the biggest supporters of getting money out of politics, having sponsored many bills to that affect. I know you do not think there is time for a power struggle over our gov't and political process. But it is the driving force behind all we stand against .... wars, genocide, over consumption, corporate greed, etc. And I believe an idle and apathetic public is responsible for allowing it. Our government: we are responsible for allowing (& paying taxes to) a tyrannical gov't to destroy life.

I do understand now why you do not get involved.

[Kez]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreebeardsUncle', 'C')ongressmen are not scientists and the electorate is not rational.

[Graeme]

2ND UPDATE: Senate Passes Energy Bill

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Senate passed a wide-ranging energy bill late Thursday, setting the stage for the first major rise in automotive fuel- efficiency standards in decades but sparing major and oil gas companies from proposed tax hikes designed to pay for tax incentives to alternative energy producers.

The bill also mandates increased use of ethanol, sets federal penalties for price-gouging and would allow the OPEC oil cartel to be sued under U.S. antitrust laws.

After several days of negotiations, a bipartisan group of senators Thursday agreed to preserve the bill's original call to increase CAFE standards to 35 miles per gallon by 2020, but dropped a requirement that automakers boost mileage an additional 4% a year after 2020.

The tax package included a five-year extension of the clean-energy production tax credit, as well as credits aimed at encouraging development of "clean coal" technology and incentives aimed at encouraging solar, wind and other projects.

[TommyJefferson]

Great, another corporate welfare program for the auto, agricultural, and coal industries. Just what we needed.

Let's sink the U.S. further into national debt. We will never actually have to pay that debt.

Good times.

[savethehumans]

How 'bout some truth in advertising?

SENATE PASSES ENERGY BILL THAT DOES INDUSTRY NO HARM AND THE PEOPLE AND PLANET NO GOOD

There! That's better!

No. . .wait. . .better isn't quite the word for it. . . .

[Twilight]

Because being where Europe is now, in 13 years' time, is going to do America any good...

[lys3rg0]

Do they still think gasoline powered cars will be mainstream in 2020?

[sameu]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', '[')b]2ND UPDATE: Senate Passes Energy Bill

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')nd would allow the OPEC oil cartel to be sued under U.S. antitrust laws.

[tsakach]

This week the House of Representatives will vote on HR 969[sup]1[/sup], a bill that requires electricity providers to obtain a minimum of 20 percent of their power from renewable energy resources by 2020.

Currently there are 24 states plus the District of Columbia that have renewable portfolio standards policies in place. Together these states account for more than half of the electricity sales in the United States[sup]2[/sup].

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('National Renewable Energy Laboratory', 'R')enewable portfolio standards—RPS policies or purchase mandates are the most powerful tool that a state can use to promote wind energy. So far, these have been particularly important for driving wind energy investment in Texas, Minnesota, and Iowa, where more than 1,700 MW of new capacity has been developed to meet the requirements of just these three states. In addition, some portfolio standards, such as those in Wisconsin and New Jersey, have been directly responsible for wind development, not only within the state, but also in neighboring states. In the future, state RPS policies, such as those under development in California and New York, are expected to play a leading role in stimulating wind energy development.[sup]3[/sup]

[Tanada]

Why let the market determine the price of energy when you can have the Feds force everyone to subsidize it through increased costs across the board?

Any company forced to install intermitent sources has to keep and maintain full capacity in fossil sources AND maintain the intermittent sources that are variable in availibility. That means costs are going to go UP.

[FishAreBest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'A')ny company forced to install intermitent sources has to keep and maintain full capacity in fossil sources AND maintain the intermittent sources that are variable in availibility.

[aahala]

I'm in favor of the bill but believe it will be very expensive and
really, really difficult to achieve.

The renewnable portion as is, is about 9.5%. 7% or more of that
is hydro which isn't reasonably possible to expand much. So
about 2.5% will have to go to 12.5% in a dozen years.

The only portion of that 2.5% that has been growing is wind
(about a quarter of that total). So as we stand now, almost all
the growth will have to come from wind, as has been the case
for the "other renewable" sector the last five years.

Take a look at the numbers, the links to tables "1.1 and 1.1A":

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricit ... m_sum.html

[aahala]

Wholly moly. I just read the bill itself.

NOthing is going to happen between now and about 2016, as
far as increasing the renewable market share. What will occur
is the present 9.5% will be more uniformly spread around for
bill purposes.