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Waiting for Peak Oil...Quietly Waiting

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby threadbear » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 16:16:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fergus', 'I') think this is the position many are forced to be in. We on the board have a general idea whats gunna


It's abundantly clear that those most convinced they know what's going to happen, on this board, don't have the remotest idea , based on their predictions for the last couple of years. Their stubborn resistance to information or opinion that doesn't conform to their own has earned other posters contempt, and insult. You'd get a much clearer picture of the future if you used a random number generator.
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby MD » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 16:36:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '.')..You'd get a much clearer picture of the future if you used a random number generator.


Please elaborate. I am interested to hear your opinion of things to come. in fact I would like to make that the focus of this thread, while we wait.

No debates allowed.
No dissertations.
Assertions only, no support.
Get out your crystal ball and tell us what comes next! (with regard to PO, of course)
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby mgibbons19 » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 17:04:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Last_Laff', 'S')hould I just keep on looking for work that I recently graduated?


Unless you like living in mom's basement, yes.
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby threadbear » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 17:04:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '.')..You'd get a much clearer picture of the future if you used a random number generator.


Please elaborate. I am interested to hear your opinion of things to come. in fact I would like to make that the focus of this thread, while we wait.

No debates allowed.
No dissertations.
Assertions only, no support.
Get out your crystal ball and tell us what comes next! (with regard to PO, of course)


Who knows, MD. That was my point. From my own personal experience I've learned that when I'm convinced I'm absolutely right, I'm more at risk of being wrong.

My own wild speculation is that there will be an economic recession so severe, the demand destruction will mask any supply problems. The recession is coming, peak oil or not. (maybe) :lol:

The wild card is the Bushies possibly striking Iran. If that happens there should certainly be a supply crisis along with many other kinds of crises. ....(maybe).

The weak oil prices presently, could be the result of the Saudis and Americans working in concert to suppress price of oil. That alone, would help reduce the power of the present Iranian leadership over it's own people. What's good for America and their suv's is really bad for the Iranian people. It's also wise for the neo-cons to try to lower oil price before initiating a war that might make it hyper expensive, in the short term. I guess it's part of the charm offensive to soften some of the effects of their harm offensive.
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby mgibbons19 » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 17:06:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '.')..You'd get a much clearer picture of the future if you used a random number generator.


Please elaborate. I am interested to hear your opinion of things to come. in fact I would like to make that the focus of this thread, while we wait.

No debates allowed.
No dissertations.
Assertions only, no support.
Get out your crystal ball and tell us what comes next! (with regard to PO, of course)


I'm with threadbear. Since I've been on this board, Avian Flu has been coming next year, NatGas crisis coming next year, PO last year - and anarchy next year.

Oh yeah, and financial collapse - that's next year too.

Much safer to say that the system looks a little unbalanced and wait to see what happens. One looks way less stupid that way.

It's
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby Cobra_Strike » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 17:11:23

There is no other course of action possible...unless your in government or some position of power. Even then, its best to just be quiet....and continue to gather wealth.
We stand here, as the light of other days surrounds us.
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby MD » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 17:17:07

Mine is similar. PO a non-issue except during price spikes. Other issues pushing it aside, generally.

Global economic meltdown could occur, but still remains low risk.

Other cusp events could occur any time. Without any surprises, we will flounder along the plateau for quite a few years.

Other than that, business as usual.
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby JPL » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 20:14:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '
')Get out your crystal ball and tell us what comes next! (with regard to PO, of course)


Hi MD

OK here we go - here is MY view on the future :o)

In the 20'th Century we had a battleground between three opposing philosophies - Communism, Fascism and Capitalism/Democracy.

The first two got beaten to the ground - with tanks, dollars, oil, whatever.

Lots of people died but the whole experiment was generally viewed as a success because society 'progressed'.

Now look back at the past 100 years with the eyes of a peak-oiler. Was it 'really' a march towards progress or was it a march towards... total madness...

Because of the onward march of our 'western' ideas of 'progress' - we managed to dig enough oil out of the ground - fast enough - to increase the world's population three-fold.

And we called that 'VICTORY???'

And look back again - with Peak Oil eyes - at the struggles of the 20'th century. Vietnam. Hiroshima. Stalin's Russia. The Cold War. What was it all for???

Eveything that our predecessors believed in, sweated for, died for, has just 'pmmmgphhh' before our eyes.

I see the future, MD, I see it very clear indeed. My eyes are very red when they look at the past but they are also very clear when I look at the future. Some-one is going to suffer for this. I feel my pain very clearly, and now it has a focus.

The future will be what we make it. But it WILL NOT be as insane and stupid as the recent past... Watch this space...

JPL
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The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before


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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby Zardoz » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 20:14:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fergus', '.').the chips start falling and I can make my next move based on whats happening then...

Since nobody really knows what is coming or when it will happen, this is the only rational approach. Until then, all we can do is carry on.
"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby MD » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 20:27:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fergus', '.').the chips start falling and I can make my next move based on whats happening then...

Since nobody really knows what is coming or when it will happen, this is the only rational approach. Until then, all we can do is carry on.


Come on man! No equivocating!
Bring on your reasoned guess.
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby JPL » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 20:42:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fergus', '.').the chips start falling and I can make my next move based on whats happening then...

Since nobody really knows what is coming or when it will happen, this is the only rational approach. Until then, all we can do is carry on.


Jeez, I can't believe you guys once fought off the British Marines. Zardoz - did your great-great grandfather have to ask his wife's permission to go into battle and 'shoot em in the whites of the eyes' ???

You know what's going to happen next. Everyone here does. In case they don't, I will spell it out - again - WE WILL STILL BE HERE (after oil). So what do we do next??? (Please figure it out, chaps, 'cos I am getting tired...)
Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before


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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby dissimulo » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 21:14:36

Events, with regard to PO, have moved much more quickly than I expected. However, consequences of those events have not materialized as quickly or as severely as I expected.

I'd say we have some time before anything goes seriously askew. Oil prices are moderating and I'll bet they stay between 40 and 60 for the next couple of years, before resuming the up trend. Political in-fighting will keep the US in Iraq, but with little progress or change. Markets will trudge on, with little reference to the true value of companies or commodities.

We're in the quiet period. Countries are evaluating the changing world conditions, envisioning their place in a new order, placing their bets. Companies are running full speed ahead, grabbing what they can; 4 quarters is as far as the corporate world looks to the future. Individuals are invested in the status quo; they will ignore signs that it is breaking down and they will fight to protect it if their ignorance is broken.

This is a time of opportunity for those who are flexible and focused on the future. It is a time of peril for those with their nose to the grindstone.

I give it until 2011 before we see the pieces begin to move about the board. Natural disasters, as always, are the wildcard.
With a farewell scream of escaping steam, the boiler bows to the Diesel;
The Iron Horse has run its course and we ride a chromium weasel
-Ogden Nash
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby keehah » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 23:33:18

Thanks all nice thread.

I expect the bandages and splints being continually applied and China playing nice until at least the 2008 Olympics.
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby zoidberg » Tue 16 Jan 2007, 23:52:25

Clearly the oil peak is going to have profound, destabilizing consequences. The only logical recourse to arm oneself to the teeth, mass on the borders and prepare to strike and destroy your neighbours and use their bodies as fertilizer for biofuel plantations.

I'm joking, but only kind of. The world's great powers depend on oil for their power. A lack of that resource reduces power, therefore in order to remain powerful in absolute terms one must remove competitors for that resource. Pushing organized states into a permanent state of failure is remarkably easy when they depend on centralized electricity generation and oil.

There will be spasms of violence as the global economy relentlessly contracts and the nation states fall into tribal anarchy. This will fade over a few decades and hopefully a few, smaller nations will rise to power on sustainable wind/solar/hydro electric power and carefully measured biofuels and start another age of mankind.
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Re: Waiting for Peak Oil...Quietly Waiting

Unread postby NEOPO » Wed 17 Jan 2007, 02:24:52

For the most part I agree with the Zionist Pig 8)
We will kill demand one child at a time if we must.Topple a government here, wreck an economy there business as usual.We have more powerful economic levers at our disposal and the main levers are attached to the U.S. economy.
It could be said that the U.S. economy has been propped up for the last 5-6 years by the housing industry which was propped up by the government.All they/we have to do is remove the economic stimulus which led to the housing boom, the economy slows and demand destruction occurs.

There are many similar levers that can be pulled to power the poor and middle classes down as needed.There is one lever being disputed and fought over currently and that would be the petrol dollar.

anyways......Until I see otherwise the beginning of the "undulating plateau" was 2005 which was announced by the production peak.
We are way beyond peak if peak oil was measured using EROEI, ENERGY DENSITY and then the actual field reserves please.

By this measure I say we are at 40 - 35% or so for conventional oil.
IMO it is no coincidence that we reached production peak and what appears to be the end of an economic growth cycle at the same time.Just look at what we have accomplished :)
Image
1960 something like 7 billion barrels per year now its 30-31.Everyone of you know that the population chart is like a carbon copy of an energy production chart and oil was by far the largest contributor to date.This is no coincidence 8)
Surely we will have to find a better way or some of these people gotta go!
In our lifetimes we will witness this transition.Most of us are 1st worlders and thus we will be allowed to continue dreaming for a while longer - call it "priviledge".

Yer right - I am not sure exactly how the big fucking rock headed straight for us is gonna feel like when it finally hits yet I bet its really gonna hurt.....
It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby IslandCrow » Wed 17 Jan 2007, 06:25:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mgibbons19', '
')I'm with threadbear. Since I've been on this board, Avian Flu has been coming next year, NatGas crisis coming next year, PO last year - and anarchy next year.

Oh yeah, and financial collapse - that's next year too.

Much safer to say that the system looks a little unbalanced and wait to see what happens. One looks way less stupid that way.



This has been troubling me as well. I can see problems on the horizon, but they always seem to be longer coming than I think. For example didn't Greenspan [do I hear the faint hum of boos from some of you!] warned of the tech bubble? But it took a further three years before it burst.

While I am clearly not in the doomer camp, I do tend to be pessimistic in my estimates. So far the system has held up better than I would have imagined (or feared). Actually I am constantly surpised at how well things manage to go along.... the housing bubble should have sunk the American economy by now, yet things still keep going.

Quietly waiting...yes to a large degree, but also quietly prepairing for a power-down and grateful for the extra time to do it in.


-----
"The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air... Much that once was, is lost..." - Galadriel
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby Last_Laff » Wed 17 Jan 2007, 14:36:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mgibbons19', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Last_Laff', 'S')hould I just keep on looking for work that I recently graduated?


Unless you like living in mom's basement, yes.


Actually this is what I hate about it. I know hate is wrong word to express but I'm on my own... unfortunately.
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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby JPL » Wed 17 Jan 2007, 18:39:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissimulo', 'E')vents, with regard to PO, have moved much more quickly than I expected. However, consequences of those events have not materialized as quickly or as severely as I expected.


So, business as usual then???

T-Rex stumbles back into the hunting-ground and discovers there are, quite surprisingly, more food animals left alive after the comet-strike, than he thought might immediately be the case....

JPL
Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before


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Re: Waiting for Peak Oil...Quietly Waiting

Unread postby JPL » Wed 17 Jan 2007, 18:56:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', '
')Surely we will have to find a better way or some of these people gotta go!


How? And Why?

NEOPO - I for one value your posts here but just listen to yourself. You sound like Hitler - or worse...
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And we all sing along like before


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Re: Quietly Waiting

Unread postby dissimulo » Wed 17 Jan 2007, 22:45:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '
')So, business as usual then???

T-Rex stumbles back into the hunting-ground and discovers there are, quite surprisingly, more food animals left alive after the comet-strike, than he thought might immediately be the case....


Yeah - I think it will be business as usual for longer than most of us expect. The global economy is both surprisingly flexible and resistant to change. I think it is going to take a sustained 5-10% spread between supply and demand before we really see serious economic fallout.
With a farewell scream of escaping steam, the boiler bows to the Diesel;
The Iron Horse has run its course and we ride a chromium weasel
-Ogden Nash
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