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oil prices to rise

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Re: oil prices to rise

Unread postby Bleep » Fri 05 Jan 2007, 19:39:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nth', 'B')leep,

Even if Angola does produce 2.5mbpd within 10 years, that won't really change US economics or world economics.

So the only reason for the price drop is hype?
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Re: oil prices to rise

Unread postby nth » Fri 05 Jan 2007, 20:03:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bleep', '
')So the only reason for the price drop is hype?


Basically, right now, we have more oil supply than demand for $60 price point. This means that traders will dictate where the price will go for short term. Traders will trade on news, so prices will fluctuate based on news, until demand picks up again.
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Re: oil prices to rise

Unread postby Bleep » Fri 05 Jan 2007, 22:08:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nth', 'B')asically, right now, we have more oil supply than demand for $60 price point.
Is this seasonal or has economic slowdown caused demand destruction?
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Re: oil prices to rise

Unread postby th1nk3r » Sat 06 Jan 2007, 00:35:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bleep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nth', 'B')asically, right now, we have more oil supply than demand for $60 price point.
Is this seasonal or has economic slowdown caused demand destruction?


I would reckon it's probably both, but with a lot more impact from the mild winter in some places... demand destruction is still in its infancy stage :(
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Re: oil prices to rise

Unread postby Temperedoil » Sat 06 Jan 2007, 00:52:44

It seems to me that the price of oil is falling now, or has been falling, due to the extremes having been taken out of the analyses.

For example, the price hit $78 per barrel due in large part to concerns over the Israeli / Hezbollah conflict engulfing other Middle Eastern states and threatening oil supplies from that region. That did not happen. There were also concerns at the time of the effects that a strong hurricane season might have on oil production in the Gulf of Mexico. As it turned out, there was nothing to worry about there. Hence, two extreme analyses removed from the equation, the price fell.

Now, the price of oil is so low due to a lack of any new extreme analyses to keep it propped up. Even though many of us on these boards expect to see problems with the supply / demand equation in the years ahead (possibly as soon as this year), there are no new tradeable pessimistic analyses doing the rounds among the oil traders at the moment.

Yes, the traders should be concerned about falling Russian exports. Yes, the traders should be concerned about the real oil producing and exporting capacities of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, and others. Apparently, they are not. Until such concerns (or similar) become a headline so sharp that it cannot be ignored by even the most closeted hermit, the traders will continue to bounce between the relative calm we have now and the near-hysteria that shook the teeth in July 2006, without having enough of anything to allow a significant settling on one or the other.
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Re: oil prices to rise

Unread postby zberry » Thu 11 Jan 2007, 18:33:23

Take this for what it's worth. Recent commentary from Jim Willie on Financialsense.com
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he commodity world has been jolted in the last few weeks. While most market watchers, mavens, and supposed experts comment upon the weather, the real story behind the oil price is the cheating on OPEC output quotas. Furthermore, Saudi Arabia seems engaged in a coordinated plan with its US brethren to destroy Iran using economic weapons, like oil price. The Saudis have discounted by $1.75 its oil price on topline sweet crude sales to its US customers. If Iran cannot be given the shock & awe treatment like Iraq, since Russia is tied like a direct strong umbilical cord in defense, then Saudis will deliver serious financial blows to Iran instead by aiding and abetting the oil price down. They offer lip service to production cuts and other associated FedSpeak tactics. They are flooding the market with oil, even as Russia does the same, while almost all OPEC players are cheating. THOSE ARE THE REAL STORIES, NOT SILLY WEATHER. Heck, blame it on the weather, and the majority of shleps will believe that, especially when short sleeved shirts grace the landscape in New York City. There are three topics of conversation identified as “small talk” pursuits among people who struggle to engage each other at a base level without depth: weather, sports, and politics. One can be sure that Goldman Sachs, the USGovt, and the Saudis are enjoying the embraced diversionary topic of weather, as backroom deals are struck, tactics are shared, extreme profits flow, and effects are pronounced. Just like the GS Commodity Index weights on gasoline were tinkered with last August, some mammoth output and pricing forces are at work now. My Gosh! Weather is responsible for perhaps $3 to $4 in the oil price, no more!

Russia is even adding fuel to the fire, as it angers OPEC by selling more oil when output cuts are debated openly and sometimes with hostility. The Russian oil production runs now at 9.75 million barrels per day. Russia angers US officials also, since its Urals crude is being sold in Rotterdam in euro terms. Anyone familiar with history realizes that the Saudis were as crucial as the bankers in destroying the Soviet Union. The Saudi royals were coordinated with US policy as they permitted the crude oil price to go under $10, and bankers called in huge loans. Call it a Soviet loan default, but please ignore the underlying force. History rhymes here with respect to Saudis versus Iran. An aside… now we have Russia selling oil in rubles, and also several nations selling oil in euro transactions like Norway, Venezuela, and Iran.

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Re: oil prices to rise

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Thu 11 Jan 2007, 18:49:19

How long does anyone here think this little masquerade can be kept up? I dont see that SA can do this for a prolonged time. If it really is the case, could this bring about a much swifter decline sooner?

More interesting stuff to be sure, but it worries me a bit too. I doubt Iran just gives in on this stuff either. More likley they will lash out rather than roll over like a dead bug.
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Re: oil prices to rise

Unread postby fafhrd » Thu 11 Jan 2007, 19:26:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'H')ow long does anyone here think this little masquerade can be kept up? I dont see that SA can do this for a prolonged time.


I doubt they'll have to keep it up. We're on the verge of a global financial crisis. That oughta buy S.A. a couple of years to come up with a better story. Once some of the gross imbalances in the markets have shaken out, then we'll get to see if we coasted through the peak masked by recession.
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Re: oil prices to rise

Unread postby DantesPeak » Thu 11 Jan 2007, 19:44:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zberry', 'T')ake this for what it's worth. Recent commentary from Jim Willie on Financialsense.com
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he commodity world has been jolted in the last few weeks. While most market watchers, mavens, and supposed experts comment upon the weather, the real story behind the oil price is the cheating on OPEC output quotas. Furthermore, Saudi Arabia seems engaged in a coordinated plan with its US brethren to destroy Iran using economic weapons, like oil price. The Saudis have discounted by $1.75 its oil price on topline sweet crude sales to its US customers. If Iran cannot be given the shock & awe treatment like Iraq, since Russia is tied like a direct strong umbilical cord in defense, then Saudis will deliver serious financial blows to Iran instead by aiding and abetting the oil price down. They offer lip service to production cuts and other associated FedSpeak tactics. They are flooding the market with oil, even as Russia does the same, while almost all OPEC players are cheating. THOSE ARE THE REAL STORIES, NOT SILLY WEATHER. Heck, blame it on the weather, and the majority of shleps will believe that, especially when short sleeved shirts grace the landscape in New York City. There are three topics of conversation identified as “small talk” pursuits among people who struggle to engage each other at a base level without depth: weather, sports, and politics. One can be sure that Goldman Sachs, the USGovt, and the Saudis are enjoying the embraced diversionary topic of weather, as backroom deals are struck, tactics are shared, extreme profits flow, and effects are pronounced. Just like the GS Commodity Index weights on gasoline were tinkered with last August, some mammoth output and pricing forces are at work now. My Gosh! Weather is responsible for perhaps $3 to $4 in the oil price, no more!

Russia is even adding fuel to the fire, as it angers OPEC by selling more oil when output cuts are debated openly and sometimes with hostility. The Russian oil production runs now at 9.75 million barrels per day. Russia angers US officials also, since its Urals crude is being sold in Rotterdam in euro terms. Anyone familiar with history realizes that the Saudis were as crucial as the bankers in destroying the Soviet Union. The Saudi royals were coordinated with US policy as they permitted the crude oil price to go under $10, and bankers called in huge loans. Call it a Soviet loan default, but please ignore the underlying force. History rhymes here with respect to Saudis versus Iran. An aside… now we have Russia selling oil in rubles, and also several nations selling oil in euro transactions like Norway, Venezuela, and Iran.



I'm not buying the central theme of this article.

The days are long past when a drop in the price of oil will hurt Iran more than SA - for multiple reasons. The easiest one to see is that Iran's oil production - and exports - have dropped much more sharply than SA's since this was last tried in the mid 1980s.

In addition, where exactly is there slightest bit of proof that SA or Russia has increased production? In fact, despite the shrill tones in the media about inventory surpluses, net world inventories are in the middle of one of their most specactular plunges since the artificial supply shocks of the 1970s. US inventories fell 70 million barrels just in the 4th quarter alone in the middle of the warmest year on record. The IEA should give us the figures on the rest of the world soon, and they won't be pretty.

However on a short term basis the price of oil can diverge wildly from fundementals.
It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
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