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don't melt the money

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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby mmasters » Fri 15 Dec 2006, 19:50:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'A')nytime infrastructure is stolen and sold for the price of its scrap value it imposes a cost on its owners or shareholders to replace. For example, sewer covers, copper wires, street light posts, etc. have all been stolen by theives and then sold as scrap metal. Except they cost a lot more to produce and replace, nevermind losing the economic value of not working, than the value of the scrap metal.

In this case individuals removing legal tender from circulation represents a cost born by taxpayers not governments. So in the same way governments can pass laws against drinking and driving because of the unacceptable cost of accidents in terms of damage, hospitalization and lives lost they can also pass laws to prevent individuals from melting down coinage for its scrap value.

That's all nice and dandy a response but it addresses absolutely nothing about the root of the problem about which is causing the infrastructure to inflate beyond its face value in the first place.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he alternative is removing all coins as legal tender. But why should taxpayers have to pay for replacing coins sold as scrap?

And maybe the alternative is letting the f'ed take over the mint. After all they could take the burden off the taxpayer. :roll:
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby mmasters » Fri 15 Dec 2006, 19:58:37

Here's a link for you, Mr. Bill:

http://www.usmint.gov/join_our_team/ind ... ction=Jobs
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby Atlantean_Relic » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 00:54:05

Okay, why are they still trying to do away with paper 1$ as soon any metal they choose is going to be worth more than 1$???
Was a long and dark December
When the banks became cathedrals
And the fog
Became God
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby rogerhb » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 01:05:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Atlantean_Relic', 'O')kay, why are they still trying to do away with paper 1$ as soon any metal they choose is going to be worth more than 1$???


How big will a $100 coin be?

Here in NZ, we've just changed to a new issue of smaller coins, they say "progress", I say "fucking inflation you moronic cretinous numbskulls"
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby GoIllini » Sun 17 Dec 2006, 04:13:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('scienceteacher', 'L')et's get real here. The cost of energy required to melt a nickle is more than the 1-2 cents "profit " one could earn.


In that case, we should immediately stop mining nickel and zinc. We have to melt the mined ore down, too.
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby mgibbons19 » Sun 17 Dec 2006, 09:22:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Atlantean_Relic', 'O')kay, why are they still trying to do away with paper 1$ as soon any metal they choose is going to be worth more than 1$???


How big will a $100 coin be?

Here in NZ, we've just changed to a new issue of smaller coins, they say "progress", I say "fucking inflation you moronic cretinous numbskulls"


I detect a subtle Mogombu influence!
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 17 Dec 2006, 10:07:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '
')If I get a cheque from some individual I can tear it up. Why can't I do the same with a bank note?

You can, you can even wipe ass with it.
Just do not tell too loudly about that, and everyting will be fine.

It is impossible to "legislate in" value of money.
Weimar Republic had learned it in the past, Soviet Union was later, Mugabe is working on it now, and United States will begin their lesson within a year or two.

Confiscation of gold will not work either.
As people know, that such a "trick" had already been done in the past, they will take adequate steps not to end up as sitting ducks in the future.
Once "confiscation bill" is announced, authorities will soon find out, that there is not much to confiscate around.
And any "paper gold" confiscated will prove to be just that - paper.
Obviously, there will always be few fools or overpatriotic people, but that is their bussiness.
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby MonkeyMia » Sun 17 Dec 2006, 11:24:31

Why don't they get rid of the 1 c and even 5 c coins?
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby Pretorian » Sun 17 Dec 2006, 19:16:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mgibbons19', '[')quohttp://www.peakoil.com/modules/Forums/bbcode_box/images/center.gif
centerte="mattduke"]
Stolen!!!
Stolen!!!!!
Stolen!!!!!!!!!!!

My money does NOT belong to YOU or to the GOVERNMENT.


As much as the libertarian in me wants to agree with you I suspect it works out like this:

The VALUE of the money belongs to you.

The coinage belongs to the mint.[/quote]

So , what you want to say that at any day the Mint can claim all those 18th-19 centuary coins at face value? To grab all those gold and silver and rare coins , offer a newly minted nickel for those $3mln 1913 nickels , ets? No, sorry. My coins are my coins, and I will do whatever I feel like with them. Now your coins may be a different story.
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby Pretorian » Sun 17 Dec 2006, 19:19:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonkeyMia', 'W')hy don't they get rid of the 1 c and even 5 c coins?

becouse after that we will get rid off 10c, 25c coins. A little bit later we will get rid of $1 coins and bills. Soon enough either a $10 000 bill will be the smallest denomination or we will be in hugs of cashless society.
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby Pretorian » Sun 17 Dec 2006, 19:23:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SinisterBlueCat', '"')We don't want to see our pennies and nickels melted down so a few individuals can take advantage of the American taxpayer.

like yeah, that is OUR job!


great sinister.
by the way there is no need to spend pennies heating up those nickels, you just use them as a nickel feed for many steel alloys.
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby SchroedingersCat » Sun 17 Dec 2006, 23:14:40

The things I love with this bit from the mint are:

- The mint cannot create laws. Nor the treasury department. I believe that task is reserved for Congress. If you don't like what the mint is proposing, write your Congress-critter and tell them to stop it.

- The irony here is too thick not to be lapped up with some nice bread. The economy (based on hallucinated growth) is crashing around our ears and the gov't is saying "Everything's fine, no problem. Inflation doesn't matter anymore. Just pretend not to notice that the commodities in our coins are worth more than the value we assign them."

My father raised a family of 12 on a middle manager's salary. My wife and I both work good jobs and barely make ends meet for the three of us.
Civilization is a personal choice.
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby MrBill » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 04:20:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'B')ut why should taxpayers have to pay for replacing coins sold as scrap?


When on the gold was money gold was gold. All a coin did was say that this particular lump was of a certain standard weight.

It was your coin, the metal did not belong to the king, the government, the mint etc.

If I get a cheque from some individual I can tear it up. Why can't I do the same with a bank note?


You are free to buy, sell and collect coins. They may not be legal tender. Legal tender has to be fungible. You can tear up a cheque, but the government has said you cannot tear up their notes. They cannot stop you from tearing up other sovereign countries notes, so far as I know?

They can also prevent you from burning the flag, even if its your own. But the flag only has the nominal value of its purchase price and is also not fungible with any other flag as legal tender. I suppose the government says, if we guarantee something is legal tender, we get to decide what you can and cannot do with our currency or coin?

I am also not free to own and use my own guns in CDA until I pass an exam and the government tells me I can own and use that gun. Heck, its mine and I do not like it, but the law is the law, unless the government gets a Parliamentary approval to change it.

So the law is whatever the voters give the government permission to change. Including the Constitution. It just takes a double majority or whatever the rules happen to be in your country. And yes in a state with a separation of powers the courts can decide certain government decisions are not legal. It is supposed to be part of the checks and balances.

Do governments abuse their powers or use them irresponsibly? Yes, but then they need to be punished by the electorate. If not held responsible, then expect the government to pass more dumb laws. You are always free to renounce your citizenship if you do not agree. You can then take your coins and live in whatever country will have you. But, of course, that is still subject to capital and export controls as well as filing a last tax return! ; - )
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby Doly » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 07:48:03

I see the whole coin business as a long term investment, anyway.

I don't think the government stops you from collecting coins (in other words, choosing which form of cash you prefer to store your money in). So nobody stops you from collecting them and waiting until they stop being legal tender. (And if they are worth more than their face value, this should happen relatively quickly - say, in about 10 years. I'm sure the government would like to collect and melt them for themselves.) Then, once they aren't legal tender any more, you melt them or use them in whichever way you prefer.
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby Pretorian » Tue 19 Dec 2006, 04:23:27

there is a whole bunch of coins which are legal tender and cost a lot of money.
here is just an example
http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/fu ... un_facts2a
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby MrBill » Wed 20 Dec 2006, 10:33:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 't')here is a whole bunch of coins which are legal tender and cost a lot of money.
here is just an example
http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/fu ... un_facts2a


A typical post peak oil scene: a Mad Max character that look suspiciously like Kevin Costner approaches The Cage where rare coins are exchanged for cigarettes, ammo and jet skis.

"Hey, Mis-Ter, whaddya gimme for this American Eagle?"

"Hmmph, not even in its orig'nal package. Huh, look at this? A scratch! I'll give you a head of cabbage or a bullet for you're trouble, stranger?"

"Its a '63, dude. Pure." He says, while releasing the strap on the holster of his sawed-off over and under Italian-made Beretta small gauge.

His slightly threatening demeanor suggested he knew THE True Value of Collectibles.

Back tracking, the shady, sweaty coin handler stutters, "Naturally, naturally, a 1963 American Eagle. Of course, of course. Okay, I have a gallon of gasoline, and you can have my daughter for free. No problems, Meester. No problems here, Sir."

"I thought not," said Mad Max's Kevin Costner look alike as he uncocked his skeet gun and relaxed. "Say, anywhere near here a man can getta sheet, shower n' shave?"

The good, bad and the coin dealer.
Last edited by MrBill on Wed 20 Dec 2006, 10:47:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby SinisterBlueCat » Wed 20 Dec 2006, 10:47:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 't')here is a whole bunch of coins which are legal tender and cost a lot of money.
here is just an example
http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/fu ... un_facts2a


A typical post peak oil scene: a Mad Max character that look suspiciously like Kevin Costner approaches The Cage where rare coins are exchanged for cigarettes, ammo and jet skis.

"Hey, MisTer, whaddya gimme for this American Eagle?"

"Hmmph, not even in its orig'nal package. Huh, look at this? A scratch! I'll give you a head of cabbage or a bullet for you're trouble, stranger?"

"Its a '63, dude. Pure." He says, while releasing the strap on the holster of his sawed-off over and under Italian-made Beretta small gauge.

His slightly threatening demeanor suggested he knew THE True Value of Collectibles.

Back tracking, the shady, sweaty coin handler stutters, "Naturally, naturally, a 1963 American Eagle. Of course, of course. Okay, I have a gallon of gasoline, and you can have my daughter for free. No problems, Meester. No problems here, Sir."

"I thought not," said Mad Max's Kevin Costner look alike as he uncocked his skeet gun and relaxed. "Say, anywhere near here a man can getta sheet, shower n' shave?"

The good, bad and the coin dealer.



LOL!

but, as the casting director, i say we ditch the Kevin Costner look a like and insert someone a bit more manly...say Clint Eastwood in his spagetti western days! mmm, yeah!
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby MrBill » Wed 20 Dec 2006, 11:09:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')OL!

but, as the casting director, i say we ditch the Kevin Costner look a like and insert someone a bit more manly...say Clint Eastwood in his spagetti western days! mmm, yeah!


Or maybe Terrence Hill, Clint Eastwood and Kevin Costner ALL in the same spaghetti post peak oil western, and each could eat more beans and be more A-social than the next?

"Hey, Mis-Ter, I see your McMansion only has C3 thermal insulation? Around these parts we expect C4."

"I guess you and me just don't like one another? So whaddya suppose we do about it, eh?"

"Slap-fest?"

"How about a burping contest? Or maybe you're chicken, huh?"

"Fine with me, just don't cry if I slap your waterworld butt!"

"No problems, May-o-naise."

"Dude, that was Richard Geere in 'An Officer and a Gentleman'. You don't see any sheet brown gerbals around here do ya?"

"Oops. Sorry, man! I mean, you Dago, SUV driving, soccer girly man."

Clint Eastwood removes his oxygen breathing aparatus and pipes up, "hey, I won a life time achievement award, punks."

But no one noticed. Hey, that's show biz post peak oil. There are a lot of has-beens as well as also-rans and never-will-be's around.
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Re: don't melt the money

Unread postby mgibbons19 » Sat 23 Dec 2006, 23:20:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mgibbons19', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', '
')Stolen!!!
Stolen!!!!!
Stolen!!!!!!!!!!!

My money does NOT belong to YOU or to the GOVERNMENT.

As much as the libertarian in me wants to agree with you I suspect it works out like this:

The VALUE of the money belongs to you.

The coinage belongs to the mint.


So , what you want to say that at any day the Mint can claim all those 18th-19 centuary coins at face value? To grab all those gold and silver and rare coins , offer a newly minted nickel for those $3mln 1913 nickels , ets? No, sorry. My coins are my coins, and I will do whatever I feel like with them. Now your coins may be a different story.


They can't have mine either. But I don't think they would have any trouble claiming our coins were their property. Wouldn't put it beyond TPTB to try it.
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