[rogerhb]

Religions claim that faith is a virtue.

Why is being gullible considered good and in whose interests?

[Ayame]

People being gulliable is seen as good by people who can exploit the gullability to their advantage.

From the lucifer principle:

There were four tribes. Three tribes worked hard but the the most influencial tribe was the shaman tribe who sat on their rear ends all day long but wanted for nothing. They got everything they needed in return for their blessings which every other tribe had to get to be successful in their endeavours (or so they believed).

that's how I roughly remember the story.

[Ludi]

There's never been anything remotely like the "shaman tribe" because that's not how tribes work.

[ohanian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'R')eligions claim that faith is a virtue.

Why is being gullible considered good and in whose interests?

[Stratovarius]

rogerhb

Almost nobody in the modern western world seems to examine their "faith" anymore. The reason so many people are, say, Christians, is that those around them are since birth. We're creatures of imitation, we can't survive without it.

Many may for a second examine their faith, but refuse to question it out of fear. Read the bible. God is the most hateful being in existence. He threatens people with an eternity of hell and smites those unwilling to have "faith" in him. Judge not lest ye be judged huh? Hypocrites...I hate 'em.

Sorry, I offended someone, but that is not my intent.

Anyway, I didn't really address the question. A surprising amount of people believe that morality can only be derived from religion or holy texts etc. In a lot of religions, it instructs you to have faith in _______. Therefore, people think faith is moral.

Of course, half the people in America don't know a damn thing about the religion they claim to adhere to and strut their shit and hold their chins high everywhere thinking they are superior to others who do not claim to the religion they hold.

Judeo-Christian principles seem to value gullibility.

[Ludi]

Eh, I think the threat of Hell is over-rated. Jesus died to save all people, so, theoretically, no-one will go to hell, unless Jesus does not have much power after all....

If you're hoping to get folks to examine thier faith, just about the worst way is to start screaming about how hateful God is and how close-minded Christians are.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohanian', 'C')onman claims that trust is a virtue?

[NEOPO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'E')h, I think the threat of Hell is over-rated. Jesus died to save all people, so, theoretically, no-one will go to hell, unless Jesus does not have much power after all....

If you're hoping to get folks to examine thier faith, just about the worst way is to start screaming about how hateful God is and how close-minded Christians are.

[Ludi]

Well, not really screaming, I know. Just the "Hypocrites... I hate em" bit...



Organized religion is a great way to, well, organize people, which is why orthodox Christianity developed. It was a terrific way to consolidate power at a critical time at the end of the Roman Empire, when everything was falling to pieces. Without the development of orthodox Christianity, history as we know it would have been very different.

If you examine orthodox Christianity and the Church, you see clearly they have almost nothing to do with what Jesus is recorded as teaching, and in many ways are directly in conflict with what he is recorded as saying on specific points. But that didn't stop the Church! And still hasn't stopped it, for that matter, in spite of the fact that anyone who wants to can read what Jesus taught and read about the history of the Church and form their own opinions. Relatively few seem to have done so, as orthodox Christianity is thriving worldwide.

[Stratovarius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'E')h, I think the threat of Hell is over-rated. Jesus died to save all people, so, theoretically, no-one will go to hell, unless Jesus does not have much power after all....

If you're hoping to get folks to examine thier faith, just about the worst way is to start screaming about how hateful God is and how close-minded Christians are.

[KhanCEO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayame', 'P')eople being gulliable is seen as good by people who can exploit the gullability to their advantage.

From the lucifer principle:

There were four tribes. Three tribes worked hard but the the most influencial tribe was the shaman tribe who sat on their rear ends all day long but wanted for nothing. They got everything they needed in return for their blessings which every other tribe had to get to be successful in their endeavours (or so they believed).

that's how I roughly remember the story.

[JPL]

Interesting discussion. Supposing you (or I) had come to this group with an aim of confessing that, they had experienced an in-explicable sequence of dreams about 'The Future'.

Just suppose they kept him (or her) awake at night with the same vision and, supposing, the message was all about Peak Oil (and associated stuff).

Supposing there was something there that some of us really need to know - like some evil, up-and-coming twist in the PO plot - would you then be interested then - in what the Shaman - or Woman - really wants to say - but they can't say it because of your negativity?

JPL

[NEOPO]

There is no religion higher then truth.

Let it be spoken always.... in good times and in times of "negativity".

Like the discussion concerning the holocaust which is now illegal in 3 countries........

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', 'S')upposing there was something there that some of us really need to know - like some evil, up-and-coming twist in the PO plot - would you then be interested then - in what the Shaman - or Woman - really wants to say - but they can't say it because of your negativity?

[frankthetank]

Khan-

I'll join if Porn is OK and i can still drink Rumple Minze...?

I view myself as a good moral, honest person, yet i know very little about any religion, and don't care to further my education in it either! I'd rather spend the time outdoors examing nature or playing with my wife

[Laughs_Last]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'K')han-

I'll join if Porn is OK and i can still drink Rumple Minze...?

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Laughs_Last', 'I')n Pastafarian theology, heaven has a beer volcano and a stripper factory.

[PenultimateManStanding]

The Sea of Faith
Was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore
Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furl'd.
But now I only hear
Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,
Retreating, to the breath
Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear
And naked shingles of the world.

-from Dover Beach, by Matthew Arnold

I don't have to believe the stories of the past to know there is mystery and beauty there. It helps to have some empathy and imagination to know, at least a little, what the world once was. And perhaps the easy living in this oil age has corroded some of the vital qualities that people of earlier ages possessed that gave their lives a meaning and depth that we can only look at uncomprehendingly. "vast edges drear and naked shingles of the world" says it well of our time. just who are the gullible ones?

Matthew Arnold at Project Gutenberg Dover Beach is about halfway down if you want to read it, it isn't very long. It was quoted in Ray Bradbury's book Fahrenheit 451.

[Ayame]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')here's never been anything remotely like the "shaman tribe" because that's not how tribes work.

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', 'S')upposing there was something there that some of us really need to know - like some evil, up-and-coming twist in the PO plot - would you then be interested then - in what the Shaman - or Woman - really wants to say - but they can't say it because of your negativity?