Peak Oil
Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

"Election" is just a slogan

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
Post a reply

"Election" is just a slogan

Postby BabyPeanut » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 10:58:26

Unless they get the electronic voting machines out or have phyical audits on paper added to them by 2006 the term "election" will just be a slogan. Trouble is that if you lie to the public via the media should you then trust them to vote for what should be done?
BabyPeanut
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3275
Joined: Tue 17 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: 39° 39' N 77° 77' W or thereabouts
Top

Postby Specop_007 » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 11:16:02

Let me guess...
You feel that way because Bush won the election right?
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
User avatar
Specop_007
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5586
Joined: Thu 12 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Postby BabyPeanut » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 11:29:46

If Kerry had won I would still think that Diebold voting machines are a terrible mistake. Switching to electronic voting machines suffers from:

Higher cost as computers break down faster than simplier machines.

Loss of auditing and verfication steps to votes.

Reduced security as there are increased ways for even non-political entities or foreign governements to tamper in ways that cannot be detected with votes.

Demonstrated security flaws in Diebold's code. The fact that the code became available on the Internet speaks volumes for itself.
BabyPeanut
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3275
Joined: Tue 17 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: 39° 39' N 77° 77' W or thereabouts
Top

Postby Guest » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 12:02:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'L')et me guess...
You feel that way because Bush won the election right?


No. Election machines w/o an audit trail is a bad idea.

Let me guess, you LOVE the possibility of fraud.
Guest
 
Top

Postby Specop_007 » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 12:08:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'L')et me guess...
You feel that way because Bush won the election right?


No. Election machines w/o an audit trail is a bad idea.

Let me guess, you LOVE the possibility of fraud.


I LOVE the possibility of good discussion. Alas, I feel someone not smart enough to register a simple user account is unable to carry on a fulfilling and meaningful conversation.
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
User avatar
Specop_007
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5586
Joined: Thu 12 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Postby Guest » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 13:49:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I') LOVE the possibility of good discussion


Too bad for the readers of peakoil.com YOU (Specop_007) are unwilling to back your claims up with facts when challenged.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'S')pecop_007 is unable to carry on a fulfilling and meaningful conversation.
Guest
 
Top

Postby Specop_007 » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 14:47:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Anonymous', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I') LOVE the possibility of good discussion


Too bad for the readers of peakoil.com YOU (Specop_007) are unwilling to back your claims up with facts when challenged.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'S')pecop_007 is unable to carry on a fulfilling and meaningful conversation.


Only when it comes to people too stupid to register an account. I mean damn, you probably couldnt handle something as basic as clicking on the links I provided anyways. I mean hell, you cant click on the link to register an account, why should I believe your capable of clicking on links I provide?
Now me and Tres, theres always a good time.
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
User avatar
Specop_007
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5586
Joined: Thu 12 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Postby BabyPeanut » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 14:50:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I') LOVE the possibility of good discussion.

So you ignore my response and just chatter with the anonymous troll?
BabyPeanut
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3275
Joined: Tue 17 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: 39° 39' N 77° 77' W or thereabouts
Top

Postby Specop_007 » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 15:00:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I') LOVE the possibility of good discussion.

So you ignore my response and just chatter with the anonymous troll?


I'm sorry, I didnt realize you were expecting a response!!

I agree the voting machines currently arent 100%. But, there also VERY new. New things have problems, its that simple. Be it cars, software, kids toys or rocket engines, new things have problems that need to be ironed out. Any security flaw could be exploited by EITHER side. Additionally, code thats public is actually preferable (Open source). Open source code will have MANY eyes looking at it, and any possible problems would be addressed faster. If you want something developed quickly, cheaply AND efficiently, make it open source.

As for faster breakdown, that depends. PC Hardware can generally last a long time. Granted, no way a peice of electronic hardware will last as long as a simple machine, but I wouldnt consider the short lifespan to necesarrily be a downside. Rather a non issue.
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
User avatar
Specop_007
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5586
Joined: Thu 12 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Postby smiley » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 15:40:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') agree the voting machines currently arent 100%. But, there also VERY new.


Come on electronic voting has been used by the rest of the civilized world for the past 10 years without problems. It is just a keypad, a counter a memory and a printer.

It is even less complicated than a pocket calculator. Any kid with a soldering iron can build one.
User avatar
smiley
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2274
Joined: Fri 16 Apr 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Europe
Top

Postby Andy » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 17:09:47

Again, I ask. Why bother with the complexity of electronic voting? There are simpler ways of registering a vote. It is just welfare for high tech equipment makers.
User avatar
Andy
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 512
Joined: Sun 16 May 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Postby Guest » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 17:21:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I') agree the voting machines currently arent 100%. But, there also VERY new. New things have problems, its that simple.


Then in your world, humans are SO incompentant that they can not be bothered to engineer something and implement it correctly the 1st time?

http://mparent7777.blog-city.com/read/945375.htm
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The HTTP link from above', '
')In stunning revelations set to rock the vote from Tallahassee to Capitol Hill -- and perhaps even a bit further up Pennsylvania Avenue -- a Florida computer programmer has now made remarkable claims in a detailed sworn affidavit, signed this morning and obtained exclusively by The BRAD BLOG!

- Affidavit in .PDF format - (Generously hosted by Raw Story!)

The programmer claims that he designed and built a "vote rigging" software program at the behest of then Florida Congressman, now U.S. Congressman, Republican Tom Feeney of Florida's 24th Congressional District.

Clint Curtis, 46, claims that he built the software for Feeney in 2000 while working at a sofware design and engineering company in Oviedo, Florida (Feeney's home district).

Curtis, in his affidavit, says that as technical advisor and programmer at Yang Enterprises, Inc. (YEI) he was present at company meetings where Feeney was present "on at least a dozen occasions".

Feeney, who had run in 1994 as Jeb Bush's running-mate in his initial unsuccessful bid for Florida Governor, was serving as both corporate counsel and registered lobbyist for YEI during the period that Curtis worked at the company. Feeney was also concurrently serving as a Florida state congressman while performing those services for YEI. Feeney would eventually become Speaker of the Florida House before being elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 2002. He is now a member of the U.S. House Judiciary Committee.

At an October 2000 meeting with Feeney, according to the affidavit and BRAD BLOG interviews with Curtis over the past three days, Feeney inquired whether the company could build a "vote fraud software prototype".

At least three YEI employees are said to have been present at that meeting; Curtis, company owner, Mrs. Li Woan Yang, and her executive secretary, Mike Cohen. Two other YEI employees may have come in and out at different points of the meeting according to Curtis.

Curtis says that Feeney "was very specific in the design and specifications required for this program."

"He detailed, in his own words, that; (a) the program needed to be touch-screen capable (b) the user should be able to trigger the program without any additional equipment (c) the programming to accomplish this needed to stay hidden even if the source code was inspected."



Huh. Looks like humans CAN engineer software to do exactly what they want.
Guest
 
Top

Postby Jack » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 18:18:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', '
')Loss of auditing and verfication steps to votes.


Ahh, but the printed material would be counted by humans, and humans make mistakes.

The second problem is that we're swallowing the elephant of voter fraud while straining at the gnat of voting machine errors. Presently, voter fraud is just too easy to commit. Let's fix that first.
Jack
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4929
Joined: Wed 11 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Postby BabyPeanut » Tue 07 Dec 2004, 20:24:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'A')dditionally, code thats public is actually preferable (Open source). Open source code will have MANY eyes looking at it, and any possible problems would be addressed faster. If you want something developed quickly, cheaply AND efficiently, make it open source.

I can't agree with you more. However, the Diebold code that has leaked out has nothing to do with OpenSource. It has to do with BrokenSecurity.
BabyPeanut
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3275
Joined: Tue 17 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: 39° 39' N 77° 77' W or thereabouts
Top

Postby Guest » Wed 08 Dec 2004, 01:10:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', 'S')o you ignore my response and just chatter


Notice how the chatter has nothing to do with the topic. Simpler to be un-accountable to the unknown than to actually bother with you BP.
Guest
 
Top
Post a reply

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest



cron