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The reason they make E85 and not E100...

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The reason they make E85 and not E100...

Unread postby neocone » Thu 16 Nov 2006, 21:32:58

Is because if it was E100 it would be drinkable (pure vodka or your favourite alcohol 200 proof almost!).

So the lobby of the beverage maker made sure it is poisonned with noxious gasoline.

I suspect when they have to make E100 because of lack of cheap gasoline, they will make sure some methanol is included.

For now even 1% of gasoline can make everything poisonous.

Of course some idiots will always manage to drink that stuff...
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Re: The reason they make E85 and not E100...

Unread postby gego » Thu 16 Nov 2006, 21:52:19

At $3 a gallon, that would sure give the liquor industry a run.

My brother in law gave me a bottle of backwoods Mississippi home made once, and after the first sip I didn't again notice how much bite it had; matter of fact, I don't remember noticing anything till I woke up after noon the next day.

If e100 were on the market, just think of the fuel shortage that would ensue, not to mention the shortage of charred oak barrels.
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Re: The reason they make E85 and not E100...

Unread postby dooberheim » Thu 16 Nov 2006, 22:00:45

I'd hope a lot fewer people would be driving, too...

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Re: The reason they make E85 and not E100...

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Thu 16 Nov 2006, 22:59:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', 'I')s because if it was E100 it would be drinkable (pure vodka or your favourite alcohol 200 proof almost!).

So the lobby of the beverage maker made sure it is poisonned with noxious gasoline.

I suspect when they have to make E100 because of lack of cheap gasoline, they will make sure some methanol is included.

For now even 1% of gasoline can make everything poisonous.

Of course some idiots will always manage to drink that stuff...


Huh? E100 is not used because it is highly corrosive to common materials. Secondly E100 is not possible since there is always some moisture in the solution. Once you get up to over 95% the effort required to drive out the last bits of moisture isn't worth it. E100 would be 200 proof and not denatured.

ATF has jurisdiction on making Ethanol. Its ture they do require that you denature the alcohol to make it highly poisonous. Here is a page with a ton of formulas for making ethanol denatured:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')21.24 Formula No. 20.

(a) Formula. To every 100 gallons of ethyl alcohol of not less than 195 proof add:

A total of 2.0 gallons of either unleaded gasoline, rubber hydrocarbon solvent, kerosene, or deodorized kerosene; or any combination of these.

(b) Authorized use. Restricted to fuel use, comparable to specially denatured alcohol “Use Code No.” 611, 612, 613, 620, and 630.


lnk

I've gotta say I'd love to make some of my own ethanol. And maybe drink a little bit. :)
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Re: The reason they make E85 and not E100...

Unread postby Lighthouse » Fri 17 Nov 2006, 06:09:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', 'I')s because if it was E100 it would be drinkable (pure vodka or your favourite alcohol 200 proof almost!).

So the lobby of the beverage maker made sure it is poisonned with noxious gasoline.

I suspect when they have to make E100 because of lack of cheap gasoline, they will make sure some methanol is included.

For now even 1% of gasoline can make everything poisonous.

Of course some idiots will always manage to drink that stuff...


hahaha that's a good one! :D :D :D
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Re: The reason they make E85 and not E100...

Unread postby mekrob » Fri 17 Nov 2006, 09:21:04

Does pure ethanol also suffer from poor ignition in cooler weathers? I was thinking that's a major part as well.
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Re: The reason they make E85 and not E100...

Unread postby mekrob » Fri 17 Nov 2006, 09:23:17

About the pure ethanol and drinking it, even in Brazil where the content is much higher, they still add impurities so you can't drink it. It seems a little ridiculous to say that moisture is the reason it isn't used. Then all you have is slightly watered down 200-proof alcohol. Would that really stop you from getting it for a few bucks a gallon?
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Re: The reason they make E85 and not E100...

Unread postby aahala » Fri 17 Nov 2006, 12:12:02

Most of the ethanol we(the US) produce is close to 100%.

We don't use E100 because at the federal level, the 51 cent a gallon subsidy is not for the production of ethanol, but for blending.

I imagine a lot of Americans think the federal subsidy is
to the farmers or producers, but it's not. It's the blenders and
that subsidy indirectly supports corn and ethanol production.
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Re: The reason they make E85 and not E100...

Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Fri 17 Nov 2006, 18:10:48

Constructing an ethanol still tops my list of PO to-dos.

If you are interested, you better do it now. The materials to do it will not be available or be extremely expensive post-peak (Copper, TIG welding).
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Re: The reason they make E85 and not E100...

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Fri 17 Nov 2006, 18:25:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aahala', 'M')ost of the ethanol we(the US) produce is close to 100%.

We don't use E100 because at the federal level, the 51 cent a gallon subsidy is not for the production of ethanol, but for blending.

I imagine a lot of Americans think the federal subsidy is
to the farmers or producers, but it's not. It's the blenders and
that subsidy indirectly supports corn and ethanol production.


So, basically blenders buy corn for market price, and then take the subsidy to artificially cheapen* their product for consumers and, ostensibly, make a profit after all that?

*-until Apr. 15 each year, that is
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Re: The reason they make E85 and not E100...

Unread postby aahala » Sat 18 Nov 2006, 12:06:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aahala', 'M')ost of the ethanol we(the US) produce is close to 100%.

We don't use E100 because at the federal level, the 51 cent a gallon subsidy is not for the production of ethanol, but for blending.

I imagine a lot of Americans think the federal subsidy is
to the farmers or producers, but it's not. It's the blenders and
that subsidy indirectly supports corn and ethanol production.


So, basically blenders buy corn for market price, and then take the subsidy to artificially cheapen* their product for consumers and, ostensibly, make a profit after all that?

*-until Apr. 15 each year, that is


The blenders I presume are primarily those "in" the oil industry.
It was, until a couple of years ago, three separate groups:
the farmers/corn producers, the ethanol producers and the blenders.

The ADM company for a long time was the overwhelming producer
of ethanol. In 2004, farmers began investing in a big way in ethanol
plants themselves as a financial hedge against lower corn prices.
The federal tax credit is to the blender company which has the
effect of increasing the price that will be paid for the ethanol.

I should have mentioned, while the present car fleet may not
be able to use ethanol unblended, in the earliest days of the
car industry, pure ethanol was what was used rather than
oil. Oil became cheaper and better to use and ethanol fell from
favor. At about the same time period, the public became more
and more against alcohol and the prohibition movement helped
end ethanol as well.
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