[Kalinka]

Hi Peakoilers,

I need your advice

How many people are needed for a small rural community to survive?
5-10 people - is that a minimum for that?

Another question is - how to convince people and convert them into PO theory without scaring them to death?
all your ideas would be highly appreciated))
Thanks

P.S. I'm speaking about nothern climate, long winter (6 months), in the middle of nowhere, great forest, small river nearby, not a great place in terms of hunting

[Ludi]

About 200 people are needed to provide a varied genetic base for long-term survival (I may have to double-check this number, if someone has a more accurate one, please post).


A good book for understanding intentional communities, how to found them, how to make them work, how to avoid failure (which is 90% likely for any intentional community), is "Creating a Life Together" by Diana Leafe Christian.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '.')..failure (which is 90% likely for any intentional community)

[Ludi]

Zardoz, they may be better, they may be worse. I suggest they may be slightly better post-peak because of the stakes involved - it may not be as easy to simply jump ship and leave in a huff (common scenario). Community members may realise they have a much deeper stake in the survival of the group, which may, depending on circumstances, literally mean their own survival. That's never the case for intentional communities now; people know they can easily go live somewhere else.

[nwildmand]

well ive always thought that the little villages dotting the prarie from texas to manitoba will be the very best place to ride out the coming crisis. but i am biased since i already live there.

it wont be romantic, everybody will be poor. but we will have full bellies. we will be a long ways away from the zombie hordes on the overpopulated coasts.

but think about it, i live in a state that exports oil, coal, hydroelectric power, wheat, corn, edible beans, soybeans and meat of all kinds. we are also one of the best places for wind power.

id be a fool to leave.

[Laughs_Last]

One person can survive alone for one lifetime. I think it depends on what you mean by “survive”, and what you mean by “community”. Are you letting in anyone, or just healthy strong smart and talented young adults? Figure on 1/3 of the population being too young, old, or infirm to do the main work. They’ll be focus on learning and teaching.

Ludi, with 200 people after a few generations, who will you be marrying? Your first cousin or your second cousin? There will only be 17 people within (+/- 6) years of your own age of opposite sex.* One will be a sibling, one will be either an uncle or a niece. This leaves 15 eligible partners.

You’ll be looking at a one-room school house providing 8th-Grade level education to 22 students. Any skilled position will then have to be by apprenticeship, or there won’t be any. You will have few choices, and little freedom. There will be no doctor, or other educated professionals. I think this could work long term, if it is within a day’s travel to a larger town with a doctor and a general store.

*(I assume life expectancy of 70, and assume that reality will be statistically average.)

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'Z')ardoz, they may be better, they may be worse. I suggest they may be slightly better post-peak because of the stakes involved - it may not be as easy to simply jump ship and leave in a huff (common scenario). Community members may realise they have a much deeper stake in the survival of the group, which may, depending on circumstances, literally mean their own survival. That's never the case for intentional communities now; people know they can easily go live somewhere else.

[PolestaR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kalinka', 'H')ow many people are needed for a small rural community to survive?
5-10 people - is that a minimum for that?

Another question is - how to convince people and convert them into PO theory without scaring them to death?
all your ideas would be highly appreciated))
Thanks

[Lighthouse]

Diversity is the key. A bunch of like-minded people becomes quite boring, not to say dangerous.

PolestR, just a friendly reminder: There is always a place for you, your attitude and skills on my property

[PolestaR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'P')olestR, just a friendly reminder: There is always a place for you, your attitude and skills on my property

[PolestaR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A') good book for understanding intentional communities, how to found them, how to make them work, how to avoid failure (which is 90% likely for any intentional community), is "Creating a Life Together" by Diana Leafe Christian.

[Kalinka]

Thanks for your replies
Ludi, thanks for the info on the book, if you don't have the book in electronic format, I'll order it on Amazon. To get 200 people together is practically impossible. We don't have much time left and I don't see a way to get this huge crowd together. It's a huge problem to find and convince even 10 people. You know it could take someone years to digest and understand PO theory. Maybe this is a subject for another topic, but really how can I introduce new people to PO ? Any ideas?
Thanks

[PolestaR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kalinka', 'T')hanks for your replies
Ludi, thanks for the info on the book, if you don't have the book in electronic format, I'll order it on Amazon. To get 200 people together is practically impossible. We don't have much time left and I don't see a way to get this huge crowd together. It's a huge problem to find and convince even 10 people. You know it could take someone years to digest and understand PO theory. Maybe this is a subject for another topic, but really how can I introduce new people to PO ? Any ideas?
Thanks

[Ludi]

Kalinka, there are more threads about forming communities in the Planning forum. There are threads about how to tell people about PO pretty much all over the board, mostly in Psychology, I think.

I tried to form intentional community, twice, both attempts didn't get past the "Let's form a community to survive Peak Oil" stage. A couple people on the board have done better, and are actually forming communities, they write about them mostly in the Planning forum.

[thuja]

Chance of surviving in small rural community------zero.

Why? You need money a lot of money to pay for your set up- land, home, stockpiled food, farm equipment, alt. energy supply, back up. Then you need to be able to support yourself completely because none of you will have outside jobs once PO causes Depression and your small town gets hit hard.

Unless you have paid off all your purchases (land/equipment, etc.) you will still have bills to pay but no way to do it.

PLease realise, the beginning stages of post peak are about economics. Without a decent income stream for some of your "members", there is no way you will be able to sustain yourself, even at a meager level.

We aren't going from 60 to zero in 5 seconds. There will be transitional stages that are very painful along the way. The price of goods will inflate rapidly, jobs will vanish quickly (especially rurally), and most stock/bond portfolios will shrink in value. You have to find a way to make your project work economically before you want to make it work logistically.

[TT]

I live in a small rural rtown of about 500 people. This town had about the same number of people in 1900.

It is not an intentional community but is well known as an area that attracts people that want an "alternative" life style. Many people here are peak oil aware. Many others are just into self sufficiency.

The town proper has about 300 people residing on 1 to 2 acre blocks. The town surrounds has about 200 people residing on 5 to 50 acre blocks. Most townies have a vegetable garden and fruit trees. The surrounding properties raise sheep, dairy cows or grow large vegetable crops.

This area was originally a wood cutting area, but the huge red gum forests are now protected. Wood cutting for firewood is allowed for residents. We are each allowed to cut 12 cubic metres of wood per year.

I am sure that other countries have areas like this. It is not necessary to start an intentional community if there are already areas like these.

[Ludi]

I can't speak for other countries, or even all of my own country, but, in my part of the US, small towns of the kind you describe are relatively rare, and small, semi-self-sufficient towns of that kind typically aren't open to "alternative" living but strongly prefer people to live the way they live and to have had family living in the town for several generations. These kinds of towns are usually very conservative, not alternative.

[DesertBear2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') can't speak for other countries, or even all of my own country, but, in my part of the US, small towns of the kind you describe are relatively rare, and small, semi-self-sufficient towns of that kind typically aren't open to "alternative" living but strongly prefer people to live the way they live and to have had family living in the town for several generations. These kinds of towns are usually very conservative, not alternative.

[Kalinka]

Thanks for your replies
There is a lot to think about. If a village/ community is not a solution than I don't know what else might be a way to survive. And yes, the hardest thing is to find the right people. It's impossible to predict how people will act when it comes to survival. We may discuss it thousand times in theory, but what could happen in reality, nobody knows.
Ludy what posts in Planning for the future and Psychology have you mentioned? I went through both forums haven't found info on getting new people PO aware. I've got a headache already but I'm not going to give up

[oowolf]

The Amish do just fine.

Hunter-gatherers lived in "families" of 20-30 individuals who associated into tribes of several hundred for mating purposes and mutual protection. Organized warfare was unknown (because it was impossible). Of course, paleolithic humans were much more sane, loving, and knowledgable than so-called civilized humans. They were also "telepathic">>http://danbartlett.co.uk/writings/sorenson.php

"Forest agriculture" is the only really sustainable way of living. Subsistence farming is doable but is a hell of a lot of hard work.