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It is Remembrance Day

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It is Remembrance Day

Unread postby Denny » Sat 11 Nov 2006, 01:44:05

I feel conflicted by Remembrance Day. I truly respect the loyalty of those young men who fought and died in World War I. But, at the same time, I feel they were treated as pawns by imperial forces on both sides. Both the Allied and the Austro-Hungarian-German enemy had been playing a long term game of one upmanship that erupted into a horrible bloodbath. There seemed to be no true principle for this war, just a contest of wills among superpowers of the era.

A while ago, I visited the National War Museum in Ottawa. I was haunted by some of the paintings.

Remembrance Day is a solemn event here in Canada. It has been said by historians that the Great War, and the battle for Vimy Ridge in particular, marked our maturity as a country. The formality of the 1867 Confederation was dry document, but those Canadians who went over the top in the battle of Vimy Ridge welded us together in spirit. In a very few days, 3,800 Canadians died to take that ridge, in the largest barrage of artillery recorded in history to that time. Over one million shells were launched. We regard it as such a victory that they took over 20,000 German lives in the battle and many thousand as prisoners. Yet those young Germans never had any ill will toward this country 6,000 km away. In fact, many of their own countrymen had become Canadian residents and citizens just a few years before. The Germand boys too were lured into battle by the ambition to serve God and country.

In my heart, I do not see any glory in that war, just a tragic lesson of how power corrupts.

Image

This huge mural at the museum shows what horror befell the tranquil meadows of Passchendaele. It became a fetid swamp of corpses, rats and exploded shells. Over one million perished in this long running battle.

I think it would be wise for any person who advocates war as a strategy for securing resources to vist this museum. It will, hopefully, change your mind.
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Re: It is Remembrance Day

Unread postby AgentR » Sat 11 Nov 2006, 03:00:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'I') think it would be wise for any person who advocates war as a strategy for securing resources to vist this museum. It will, hopefully, change your mind.


Unfortunately, and unlike in the past for us, these coming wars are about the ability to keep food on the table, when you get right down to it. The amount of horror that one man would be willing to commit inorder to keep his wife and child from starvation is hard to even put into words.

The fact that we are entering these wars while we are still well fed and wealthy will only serve to efficiently turn our willingness into doing-ness.

There is no glory.
cold death in winter's hatred
the earth soaked in blood.
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And so shall we remain; Until the end.
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Re: It is Remembrance Day

Unread postby Denny » Sat 11 Nov 2006, 03:39:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'I') think it would be wise for any person who advocates war as a strategy for securing resources to vist this museum. It will, hopefully, change your mind.


Unfortunately, and unlike in the past for us, these coming wars are about the ability to keep food on the table, when you get right down to it.


I have a hard time grasping that, at least for us fortunate enough to live in the Americas. We have coal as a backup and, more importantly, we have ingenuity. It seems we can put multi-billions into military research, but just hundreds of millions of dollars into alternative energy research. Too bad those figures are not reversed.

Are you really talking about food on the table or maintaining our wasteful lifestyle that Dick Cheney said was "non-negotiable"? It is surprising how much food can be grown when people will pay more, by taking much more care and using more labor intense practices than North Americans have become familiar with. Look at the Netherlands as an example.
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Re: It is Remembrance Day

Unread postby AgentR » Sat 11 Nov 2006, 04:02:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'A')re you really talking about food on the table or maintaining our wasteful lifestyle that Dick Cheney said was "non-negotiable"? It is surprising how much food can be grown when people will pay more, by taking much more care and using more labor intense practices than North Americans have become familiar with. Look at the Netherlands as an example.


I absolutely mean food on the table and starving kids in the street. Most famines in the world are a result of distribution and economic failures, not a failure of gross potential output. We are configured in the most absolute worst possible way for distribution in a low energy world. [nb, I'm a slow period doomer, 30 years out minimum in my book, 50 years probable.] I should live long enough just to see the beginning of it and be able to tell whether I did well or poorly on behalf of my family.

And please don't tell me you bought that BS line about non-negotiable. It was negotiable, it is negotiable, and it will always be negotiable. Buying a line like that is like believing a used car pitch on a 20 year old car from New Orleans.
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Re: It is Remembrance Day

Unread postby uNkNowN ElEmEnt » Sat 11 Nov 2006, 11:20:41

Very nicely put Denny. We canadians are such noble schmucks. in 11 days it will be the fourth anniversary of my FIL's death. he fought in WWII in Italy, Belgium and somewhere else I can't think of right now. They believed so much more than we do now, with so much less reason too.
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Re: It is Remembrance Day

Unread postby Laughs_Last » Sat 11 Nov 2006, 18:32:32

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Last edited by Laughs_Last on Sun 04 Nov 2007, 23:17:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It is Remembrance Day

Unread postby Daculling » Sat 11 Nov 2006, 18:45:34

Well I'm going to ignore every post above and every post below and extend my gratitude to the Veterans that have served us selflessly. You deserve the whole damn week off as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: It is Remembrance Day

Unread postby Kfish » Sat 11 Nov 2006, 19:42:26

Speeches given on these types of holidays in Australia (Remembrance Day and Anzac Day, April 25) have gained a distinctly odd flavour over the last few years.

Australia's most famous military encounter was at Gallipoli, and it seems to occupy the same cultural space as Vimy Ridge in Denny's description. The important difference: we lost. In a series of painful bungles (which we like to blame the British for), we got our arses handed to us, lost several thousand troops, gained absolutely nothing, and went home with our tails between our legs. Possibly it's the Australian version of the Alamo. I don't know.

There's always been the tension between the "war is hell" and the "honour our veterans" memes. And seeing Australian, Japanese, German, Serbian, Turkish and Malay veterans marching all in the same parade gives a new meaning to the idea of multiculturalism. However, the speeches have changed: it used to be "war is hell, but the last one was necessary", to "war is hell, but this one is necessary". It's very unsettling, to say the least.

Perhaps we will get to a point where it is necessary and useful to go to war for resources. However, that day could be postponed greatly by changes to the way Westerners live our lives. Unfortunately, a sizeable proportion of several countries don't want to, or don't know how, or something. :cry:
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