[bart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RonBonnell', 'I') believe they [the Amish] do use selective technology.

[pkofsocal]

>The reason the numbers of Shakers fell is that their growth had come from as orphans, the unemployed, and people without families. As economic and social conditions improved, there was less motivation to join. Religious conversions also dropped as religious fashions changed.

In one word, "Television".

>Interviews of the Shakers are surprising for the acceptance and lack of bitterness they showed as their numbers dwindled. Quite a contrast to our excitement and hysteria.

What they would do? It was the only life they knew. They are kind of too late for going to dates.

>pkofsocal, if the future is as bad as you think it will be, there may be a resurgence of monasticism and Shaker-like groups. In Europe and Asias, monastic orders have been going for over 1000 years; they provide a refuge in times of trouble, and a sanctuary for learning to continue.

To maintain monastic orders you need a constant inflow of people. Sure, there will always be a few people who are religious enough to put themselves out of the gene pool. But I doubt their numbers would be numerous enough to maintain the Order.

Many poor boys became monks during these times because it was the only way for them to receive education.

But if civilization retreats, education will be less necessary also.

[RonBonnell]

They themselves are pacifists, but do they pay for defense? They do now through taxes. I know they are not allowed to own a car but they can pay for a ride in a car.

Perhaps in the future they would pay for protection with food or knowledge. Maybe the "protection" would be more like the kind offerred by the "Mob" to a New York store owner. Perhaps that is how they survived in the past. If they were a source of food, someone who controlled the area would want them protected. If there are just mobs that reach them they may not have a hope, but if someone takes control, even as in "The Postman", they could be protected, and their knowledge preserved. This would, I suppose, be something like a feudal system.

Absent a collapse, the current government offers protection but demands the food or its equivalent through taxes.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pkofsocal', 'D')enying Peak Oil and Grasping at Straws are futile in the end.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jato', 'P')K, good post. This site has shown me just how much people are in denial about the coming crisis of declining energy.