[Cobra_Strike]

I never exactly got why it became illegal...Then I watched a show on the History Channel; Illegal drugs, and how they got that way....And I became even more confused, then there was clarity...Political, the 'reefer madness' was a disinformation war....designed to make a group of its users look evil, Mexican immigrants. It might as well be legal, but won't be. This is one thing I look forward to in a breakdown scenario, freedom to grow useful plants.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CraigX', 'I') have a web site, CraigX.com, dedicated to end prohibition. I realize that bio-mass will not replace fossil fuel need, but it could greatly reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

[Cobra_Strike]

Might not save us, but it might mellow some people out....which might save us from some war. *shrugs* Smoke 'em if you've got 'em comes to mind...

[The_Toecutter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')re you kidding? Even drilling ANWR wouldn't reduce our growing dependence upon foreign oil.

All alternatives to foreign oil combined would only slow the rate of growth of dependency, never will it reduce it.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')re you kidding? Even drilling ANWR wouldn't reduce our growing dependence upon foreign oil.

All alternatives to foreign oil combined would only slow the rate of growth of dependency, never will it reduce it.

[The_Toecutter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')es, it would either increase consumption by lowering the price or bring on a self-induced recession.

[CraigX]

I think marijuana legalization would create an alternative to Petro Chemical fuel....look at the example of Brasil....no one is saying don't use oil....heck our nation is addicted to it, if you believe the President was telling the truth in last year's State of the Union address....but, what are we doing to end our addiction....$75 a barrel was a huge wake up call to what is going to happen in the future....I could barely afford to drive my children to school with gas at $3.69 per gallon....I think we need to get realistic about why we are in the Middle East....democracy shamocracy....it is about the oil....and we don't want all that oil money in the hands of terrorists....let's grow pot....#1 people won't want to drive as much...they'll already be happy just hanging out where they are....#2 We will create small market bio-fuels that won't replace oil, but will lower our dependence on Middle East oil...Dems and Republicans can all agree that is a good thing!

[The_Toecutter]

While biomass won't be able to provide near the energy of oil, if you couple it with efficient cars that address aerodynamic drag and get 80+ mpg, and use it to replace oil for use in plastics, textiles, and other goods, we could still significantly reduce our oil use.

Brazil needs to be careful. While sugarcane ethanol has a good EROEI(laughable Brazilian government propaganda places it at 8-10, but scientifically valid peer reveiwed studies at 3-4), attention needs to be made to do proper crop rotations to prevent soil erosion and the rainforests need to be left alone. There is plenty of unforested or already deforested land that can be used to make ethanol for a cheap price, but industry would rather go the more profitable route and kill more rainforest to squeeze out that extra 1-2% of returns. It will not be able to fuel all of Brazil's auto fleet sustainably, let alone Americas(well maybe Brazil could meet their own needs if their cars were about 4x more efficient, certainly in the realm of possibility).

To solve foreign dependence on oil, we MUST reduce oil consumption dramatically. We can do that, even without greatly sacrificing living standard. The Europeans use much less oil per capita, so too does Japan. Even they have plenty of room for improvement by use of electric vehicles in place of conventional ones, greater application of industrial hemp, passive solar heating/cooling, wind/solar energy, and other advancements. But certain people don't want us to reduce oil consumption and spending given their financial stake in business as usual. Their drive to maximize profits while shoving their external costs onto the general public and the taxpayers while denying the general public alternatives is the heart of the problem of peak oil, not just the lack of oil itself. Alternatives exist, and we should use them, and conserve this finite and valuable material.

In any sustainable future, we cannot waste precious resources on wars, domestic spying of the public, or archaic anti-drug legislation. Those are resources that could otherwise allow us to keep a reasonable living standard on greatly reduced amounts of available materials. We simply cannot have a few large corporations concentrating all of the world's wealth and resources into their hands, either, by manipulating what is supposed to be a free market. This also leaves less resources available for the majority of the population, greatly reducing their living standard on much less resource availability.

I say bring on the self-induced recession. Properly managed, it needn't be so bad, and perhaps would be a good thing(eg. your living standard now costs $10k/year instead of $30k due to cheaper alternatives, so you work 1/3 as many hours to keep it, freeing up jobs for others in a shrinking economy). It is the only way to either avoid or reduce as much as possible any instances of dieoff. Resources must be conserved and recycled, not squandered.

[CraigX]

Glad to participate in the discussion re: hemp and alternative to petro fuel...I am one of the few conservative people in the cannabis movement. I have seven children, so I care deeply about what is going to happen as we can no longer dominate the oil consumption of the world....or can we? should we? All valid questions that should be discussed in a democracy.

Anyway, it sounds as if you know what you are speaking about. I am simply glad the price of oil is coming down for my personal needs...getting the kids to school and me to work, but I am highly aware that things can not go on as usual.

Al Gore seems like an idiot to me....wha, wha, wha like a crying baby as he cruises around with is SUV ladened motorcade, but what can be done to reduce our dependence on oil because much of the world's oil is sitting under lands where the people who live above it don't have our same values and beliefs.....should we be giving them our money? I think not....

I am supportive of people making alternatives modes of transportation and alternative fuels....yes, nothing yet can replace oil...but we as a nation can use it much more efficiently...which starts with me as an individual....I just bought a Scion...although I still have a Suburban to drive the children around when needed. Oh the silliness of it all.......God bless and use less! CraigX

[The_Toecutter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')l Gore seems like an idiot to me....wha, wha, wha like a crying baby as he cruises around with is SUV ladened motorcade,

[Ludi]

I'm wondering how you maintain the same standard of living during a recession. When you lose your job, you may lose your house as well. How will you retain your standard of living if homeless?

I agree working fewer hours is a good thing. I don't work very much, myself.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CraigX', 'W')e will create small market bio-fuels that won't replace oil, but will lower our dependence on Middle East oil...Dems and Republicans can all agree that is a good thing!

[The_Toecutter]

Homelessness and joblessness would be a symptom of an uncontrolled powerdown.

A controlled powerdown is what I am referring to.

If you have an electric car that is cheaper to run than a comparable gas one and last 3 times as long, have a home that uses significantly less energy, buy food from local farmers that hasn't been shipped long distances, have durable hemp clothing that you rarely if ever need to replace, and no longer pay the pharmaceutical industry thousands of dollars a year for expensive painkillers or antidepressants when you can grow pot and smoke a joint for almost free, you are essentially cutting many significant expenses out of your life without reducing your living standard.

This in turn means less economic growth, if everyone goes to cheaper alternatives for the same desired effect. Thus jobs will be cut from the reduced revenue and spending, due to industry wanting to maintain profit margins(but would still fail miserably).

But the jobs need not be cut, if say, people start working 20 hours a week instead of 50 to service the same living standard on greatly reduced expenses.

This is a controlled, voluntary powerdown. With cheaper alternatives available, you don't need to spend as much money to maintain your lifestyle, and therefore, you may be motivated to work less and still live comfortably.

But this goes against the profit motive of corproations.

There exists a conflict of interest. Wealth is concentrating into the hands of the few precisely because our way of life is so wasteful and expensive. But this waste and expense is what generates a profit and generates economic growth.

Industry wants one particular lifestyle to pervade the world's cultures, but everyone else could be doing just fine with another lifestyle if the means to achieve it weren't discouraged to the extent they are by legislative and other means.

[JRP3]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')
Yes, it would either increase consumption by lowering the price or bring on a self-induced recession.

[JRP3]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CraigX', ' ')I have seven children

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JRP3', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')
Yes, it would either increase consumption by lowering the price or bring on a self-induced recession.

[The_Toecutter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') am afraid the historical facts say otherwise. Jevon's Paradox. As prices have fallen recently, gasoline consumption has resurged. Put something on sale and people will buy more of it. Will they drive in circles? No, but they will drive more.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', '-')Post peak oil we WILL have a decreased supply of oil. We will not be able to increase consumption beyond geological limits, despite Jevon's paradox suggesting that consumption should still increase if we increase the efficiency by which we use the oil.