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National Mental Health Testing

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National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 14:38:40

whatever happened to this story? a couple years ago, there was a proposal to screen the whole country for mental health issues.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he president's commission found that "despite their prevalence, mental disorders often go undiagnosed" and recommended comprehensive mental health screening for "consumers of all ages," including preschool children. According to the commission, "Each year, young children are expelled from preschools and childcare facilities for severely disruptive behaviours and emotional disorders." Schools, wrote the commission, are in a "key position" to screen the 52 million students and 6 million adults who work at the schools.


first of all, there is something very creepy about this choice of words: "consumers of all ages"; is that what we are now, "consumers"? Whatever happened to "citizens"? But second, the horrific visions of Arthur Koestler and Aldous Huxley seem ever closer to becoming reality. "Soma" to be prescribed to everyone for pacification purposes. It has been two years now and nothing has happenend. But I have the feeling that the whole political class is insane, Democrats and Republicans alike so its very ironic they would think of "testing" the public: they are the insane ones.. The local politicos we have here in my town are anything but confidence-inspiring. And what are the political ads across the country doing? you folks with TVs know: slimy smears and sexual innuendo. I'm thinking of not voting, its hopeless. and maybe you Bush-bashers are right, but don't expect anything enlightened from the Democrats either. Do you want this person for your Speaker Of The House:

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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 16:19:20

This, being posted by someone who originally didn't agree that the U.S. is progressing towards totalitarianism?

This particular piece you posted is indeed quite disturbing, just for the mere fact that our politiciians considered it, regardless of whether or not they have gone through with it yet or plan to in the future.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')img]http://bilesnarksneer.typepad.com/bile_snark_sneer/images/nancy_pelosi.jpg[/img]


AHH! GET IT AWAY! GET IT AWAY!!!!
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 16:23:47

I'm not sure of anything, toecutter, except that Alvin and Chipmunks are charming (and that you aren't supposed to quote images)
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 16:27:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '(')and that you aren't supposed to quote images)


I had to make an exception for this case. That thing will be giving me nightmares for a long time to come.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 16:34:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '(')and that you aren't supposed to quote images)


I had to make an exception for this case. That thing will be giving me nightmares for a long time to come.
I agree, an exception should be made here, since a profound point was made by the posting twice of an image. The politician from Hell!
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 17:06:02

I honestly can't say I'm surprised.

A few years ago, some big pharma representative was bragging about the increase in Ritalin usage in schools. He boldly declared "By 2020, we will have achieved 50% market penetration." Knowing what I know about administering psychotropic drugs, and Ritalin in particular, to developing brains, I was honestly scared for the first time since I was a child.

Corporations don't want a generation of free thinkers, they want a generation of mindless consumers. which is of course why Bush's commission would choose those particular words. Yes, that's all we are to "them".

Sit down. Shut up. Don't think. Consume and die.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby Zardoz » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 17:44:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', '.')..The best analogy for the impact of even one person having mental problems (serious or minor) is like a stone thrown into the water. The waves move outward, so think of the wave front as the ripple effect through society. It does die off some distance from impact but imagine that we are all like little boats on that pond, all boats start rocking...

The girlfriend of one of the co-owners of the business where I work is a severly neurotic head case. The damage she is doing, both indirectly and directly, is so severe that we are now to the point where I think the existence of the company is threatened.
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 20:08:46

If a child has a mental illness, it's the job of the parents to find and treat it, not the job of the government. My tax dollars would be better placed elsewhere, and if you keep the government out of it, you don't run the risk of kids being profiled in the manner described.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby JustinFrankl » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 21:18:12

Personally, that has to be the most offensive graphic I've ever seen posted here.

Good job, keep it up.
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby WildRose » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 21:31:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'A') few years ago, some big pharma representative was bragging about the increase in Ritalin usage in schools. He boldly declared "By 2020, we will have achieved 50% market penetration." Knowing what I know about administering psychotropic drugs, and Ritalin in particular, to developing brains, I was honestly scared for the first time since I was a child.



Treating the symptoms a lot of kids have with drugs such as Ritalin is a big part of the problem. What happens after a few years is that the kids end up on a cocktail of pharmaceuticals to control their behavioral issues and the child becomes an adult who is truly screwed up. Usually, the child's problems have been diagnosed when they're 6 to 12 years old approximately, and the school is often the institution that recommends testing. The kid may be having trouble concentrating, for example, or be unable to sit still, may have disruptive behavior in class. A kid may be tested simply because the marks on their exams aren't impressive. The thing is, it seems that finding a label for the kid's problems and then finding medication to put him or her on, so that the kid can then fit into what really is quite a rigid education system, is the general course of action. A number of times I have found myself seriously doubting the competence of the people doing the testing at the educational level. Do you know that the number of children who are suspected of having attention/concentration disorders by their teachers and parents is huge compared to the number who actually are diagnosed by psychologists with these disorders? It's true, and quite often what appears as ADHD is often just immaturity that they will naturally outgrow given the time to do so.

I have seen this over and over again in schools, had this experience myself with one of my own children, and have talked to foster parents (really decent ones) who are trying to deal with over-medicated kids. In the hospital setting (where I work), typically what happens is a kid is admitted because they're having problems in school or at home, they're on 2 or 3 or more medications, the medications are adjusted a bit, and because of bed constraints at the hospital they're sent home quickly. Usually, their behavior is quite ideal in the hospital (because they don't have to deal with the stressors they have at home and school, whatever they might be). But when they go on a weekend pass or are discharged home, the trouble starts again. I can't help but think that the actual causes of the problems aren't dealt with; they're simply buried with the medication.

I definitely agree with the poster who said that preparation for life issues through school courses, etc. might help a lot of kids and young adults. Also, preparation for parenting would probably reduce the number of kids who go on to develop problems that are treated with medication, especially ones who are said to have "oppositional defiant disorder". Strong parenting skills alone would go a long way towards treating these kids, or actually may even prevent them from ever being diagnosed as such.

I don't go along with testing everyone, especially at an early age (preschool, as suggested in the article). That's crazy. People develop at such different rates, and I don't trust all of those professionals who are doing the assessments.
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 28 Oct 2006, 22:58:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JustinFrankl', 'P')ersonally, that has to be the most offensive graphic I've ever seen posted here.

Good job, keep it up.
heh heh, spooky as hell! I wonder if you can get a Pelosi mask for Halloween. It's strange, she's got perfect teeth, a crisp nose job, etc. but the effect is frightening.
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby peaker_2005 » Sun 29 Oct 2006, 01:37:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'A') few years ago, some big pharma representative was bragging about the increase in Ritalin usage in schools. He boldly declared "By 2020, we will have achieved 50% market penetration." Knowing what I know about administering psychotropic drugs, and Ritalin in particular, to developing brains, I was honestly scared for the first time since I was a child.



Treating the symptoms a lot of kids have with drugs such as Ritalin is a big part of the problem. What happens after a few years is that the kids end up on a cocktail of pharmaceuticals to control their behavioral issues and the child becomes an adult who is truly screwed up. Usually, the child's problems have been diagnosed when they're 6 to 12 years old approximately, and the school is often the institution that recommends testing. The kid may be having trouble concentrating, for example, or be unable to sit still, may have disruptive behavior in class. A kid may be tested simply because the marks on their exams aren't impressive. The thing is, it seems that finding a label for the kid's problems and then finding medication to put him or her on, so that the kid can then fit into what really is quite a rigid education system, is the general course of action. A number of times I have found myself seriously doubting the competence of the people doing the testing at the educational level. Do you know that the number of children who are suspected of having attention/concentration disorders by their teachers and parents is huge compared to the number who actually are diagnosed by psychologists with these disorders? It's true, and quite often what appears as ADHD is often just immaturity that they will naturally outgrow given the time to do so.

I have seen this over and over again in schools, had this experience myself with one of my own children, and have talked to foster parents (really decent ones) who are trying to deal with over-medicated kids. In the hospital setting (where I work), typically what happens is a kid is admitted because they're having problems in school or at home, they're on 2 or 3 or more medications, the medications are adjusted a bit, and because of bed constraints at the hospital they're sent home quickly. Usually, their behavior is quite ideal in the hospital (because they don't have to deal with the stressors they have at home and school, whatever they might be). But when they go on a weekend pass or are discharged home, the trouble starts again. I can't help but think that the actual causes of the problems aren't dealt with; they're simply buried with the medication.

I definitely agree with the poster who said that preparation for life issues through school courses, etc. might help a lot of kids and young adults. Also, preparation for parenting would probably reduce the number of kids who go on to develop problems that are treated with medication, especially ones who are said to have "oppositional defiant disorder". Strong parenting skills alone would go a long way towards treating these kids, or actually may even prevent them from ever being diagnosed as such.

I don't go along with testing everyone, especially at an early age (preschool, as suggested in the article). That's crazy. People develop at such different rates, and I don't trust all of those professionals who are doing the assessments.


When diagnosed *correctly* and not just diagnosed with these conditionj because they want to say they diagnosed something, a fair bit of good can result - I'm living proof that the stuff actually DOES WORK - IN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES.

But that's the key.

I'm in Australia, but the possibility of national mental health screening gives me mixed feelings. On one hand, there is a problem - and it DOES need to be addressed.

On the other hand, this sounds like a surefire way to condemn people the government doesn't like. Even if it doesn't start out that way it could quite easily end that way.

Then again, I was diagnosed by people whom I *know* are knowledgable in this field.
Last edited by peaker_2005 on Sun 29 Oct 2006, 02:05:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sun 29 Oct 2006, 01:42:19

whatever the problems are, drugs aren't the answer. try looking into the eyes of newborn kids and caring about them. love is the answer.
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby gego » Sun 29 Oct 2006, 02:06:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'w')hatever the problems are, drugs aren't the answer. try looking into the eyes of newborn kids and caring about them. love is the answer.


I don't think that love will overcome the internal chemical imbalances in a human body caused by incomplete food, imbalanced diet, and environmental pollutants. However, you are correct to the extent that it is possible to take a chemically balance brain and screw it up emotionally with bad parenting.

I think the real danger in government mental health standards is that they can be used to effectively imprison those who oppose the state, as was done in the Soviet Union, simply by classifying political opposition as insane and shipping them off to control facilities.

I don't think I would want the likes of George Bush or Bill Clinton being in charge of establishing anything, much less standards for something so vague as mental health. I would hate to think that one of my children or grandchildren would have the mental health of either one of these deviants.
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby Kristen » Sun 29 Oct 2006, 02:10:15

Hell Ritalin and Adderall make the us more productive, give em some speed and they will get the job done, thats what its all about!
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby peaker_2005 » Sun 29 Oct 2006, 02:24:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'w')hatever the problems are, drugs aren't the answer. try looking into the eyes of newborn kids and caring about them. love is the answer.


Oh, they're certainly not the be all and end all. There are, however circumstances where they do work and help.

And love can do a heck of a lot to improve things, yes.
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby WildRose » Sun 29 Oct 2006, 03:17:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peaker_2005', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'w')hatever the problems are, drugs aren't the answer. try looking into the eyes of newborn kids and caring about them. love is the answer.


Oh, they're certainly not the be all and end all. There are, however circumstances where they do work and help.

And love can do a heck of a lot to improve things, yes.



I do agree that there are times when medication is essential. Some conditions require medications all the time, some for a shorter period. Anyone can be stricken with mental illness; sometimes it's a direct reaction to a life circumstance and medication is needed for a short time, in combination with the support of a good counsellor and some good friends. Mental illness is more common in the elderly than some people realize, and kids can have real problems with depression and anxiety also.

It wouldn't be my place or anyone else's to suggest that these problems aren't real or don't require diagnosis and treatment. What I'm opposed to, though, is the rampant and excessive use of drugs to treat problems that could be just as effectively treated in other ways, without the side effects and dependence created by drugs. I guess I lean more towards trying to find what works without using medications.

To return to the original idea, about national testing for mental health - can you all imagine how difficult it would be to maintain any semblance of uniformity with such a task? For one thing, even mental health professionals don't agree on diagnoses sometimes. For another, imagine someone assessing your child and telling you he or she has ADHD when really boredom is the problem. Or telling you your child has borderline intelligence when a language arts disability is really the problem. If such a system were implemented, everyone would be at the mercy of a small group of "professionals" and their recommendations.
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Re: National Mental Health Testing

Unread postby TommyJefferson » Sun 29 Oct 2006, 08:29:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'w')hatever happened to this story? a couple years ago, there was a proposal to screen the whole country for mental health issues.


Those presidential commissions are just P.R. B.S. to pacify some special interest group interested in increased funding for their pet cause.

Consider:

* President's Commission on the HIV Epidemic
* U.S. President's Commission on CIA activities within the United States
* Tower Commission
* Presidential Commission on the Space Shuttle Challenger Accident (1986) - a.k.a. Rogers Commission
* The President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy - a.k.a. Warren Commission
* Presidential Commission on the Status of Women
* National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States - a.k.a. 9/11 Commission
* Presidential Advisory Commission on Holocaust Assets in the United States (1998)
* President's Commission To Strengthen Social Security (May 2, 2001)
* President's Commission on Excellence in Special Education (October 2, 2001)
* Commission on the Future of the United States Aerospace Industry (2001)
* President's Commission on the United States Postal Service (2002)
* President's Commission on Implementation of United States Space Exploration Policy (2004)
* Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction (2005)

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidenti ... ted_States)
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