What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
by Bytesmiths » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 12:59:15
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'A')s for concentration camps: this is a perfect project for community intel. People who live near these things should organize themselves to keep someone posted on watch at all times to make note of traffic going in & out.
The problem with
this is that no one will imagine the camps are for
them:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pastor Niemoller', '[')i]In Germany they first came for the Communists and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me — and by that time no one was left to speak up.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'A')ll of their reports could be entered into an online database and made available for analysis.
Ah, good! Gather the names of the traitors in one place, where they can be easily rounded up! :-)
Of course, any of us who are writing such things will get on some list, no?
:::: Jan Steinman, Communication Steward,
EcoReality, a forming sustainable community. Be the change! ::::
-
Bytesmiths
- Tar Sands
-
- Posts: 730
- Joined: Wed 27 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Salt Spring Island, Cascadia
-
by Bytesmiths » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 13:03:25
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', '.')..I love the picture of the camp, man those are ugly eh? IT would be torture just to have to live in one of those things.
For them, it's paradise. It absolutely beats the hell out of a shantytown. Note the bright, happy colors they're being painted. That's a Mexican tradition: The color of your house says a lot about what is going on inside.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dan Quayle, standing in a refuge camp,', 'W')hat I see here are a bunch of happy campers. Happy, happy, campers!
One of the hallmarks of privilege is that the privileged don't really see themselves so.
:::: Jan Steinman, Communication Steward,
EcoReality, a forming sustainable community. Be the change! ::::
-
Bytesmiths
- Tar Sands
-
- Posts: 730
- Joined: Wed 27 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Salt Spring Island, Cascadia
-
by Dreamtwister » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 13:06:51
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bytesmiths', 'O')f course, any of us who are writing such things will get on some list, no?
What makes you think you're not already on "the list"? We know this website is heavily monitored by several branches of government, the "preparednes" forum reads like a Waco primer, and several posters here are downright belligerant toward the administration.
If I were "them", I'd have a profile on every poster here.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
-
Dreamtwister
- Intermediate Crude
-
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mon 06 Feb 2006, 04:00:00
-
by NEOPO » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 13:21:28
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bytesmiths', 'O')f course, any of us who are writing such things will get on some list, no?
and several posters here are downright belligerant toward the administration.
Does pissed off and angry = belligerance? if so then ok
Must be a very long list as we can add the 911 truthers and many other such groups as well.
It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.
-
NEOPO
- Permanently Banned
-
- Posts: 3588
- Joined: Sun 15 May 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: THE MATRIX
-
by Dreamtwister » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 14:38:53
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'D')oes pissed off and angry = belligerance? if so then ok
In this case, yes it does.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'M')ust be a very long list as we can add the 911 truthers and many other such groups as well.
Lists cost next to nothing. If they are already monitoring "hot topics" like PO, it's not much more difficult to do a threat assessment of every poster. Watch:
Without using my previous knowledge of posters here, I'll perform a couple of searches. First, I'll search for "Bush + idiot" and this is what I get from the first page:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '
emailking 1
Carlhole 1
evilgenius 1
Elan_Rasa 1
gego 1
rwwff 1
KhanCEO 1
Clouseau2 1
lateralus 1
galacticsurfer 1
MountainHiker 1
nwildmand 1
NEOPO 1
')
Now, there is also a thread entitled "Is Bush an idiot?", so I'll flag that particular thread to be actually read by a person:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic23994.html')
Now, I'll assign all of those posters a value of 1. Next, I'll preform a search for "allah":
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '
DantesPeak 1
seldom_seen 1
nwildmand 2
americandream 1
Raphael 1
Kachina 1
Eli 1
Aaron 1
galacticsurfer 2
rwwff 2
Heineken 1
Chicken_Little 1
')
Now I'll assign those posters 1 point as well. Finally, I'll do a search for "rebellion" to weed out most of the casual discussion, and since this is a serious search, assign all of those hits an additional 2 points:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '
AgentR 2
gego 3
Roy 2
Dreamtwister 2
smallpoxgirl 2
NEOPO 3
threadbear 2
Zardoz 2
Miki 2
rwwff 4
seahorse 2
')
Of course a more comprehensive search could be done just as easily. You could also for example, include some searches to reduce peoples' scores. It might help to eliminate some false positives (Notice rwwff's score is higher than everyone else's? Especially if you include AgentR, which they almost certainly would with an IP address comparison. Or maybe it's not a false positive at all?)
Then, armed with this list (which took me longer to type out than it did to perform), they could search for all posts for personal review, starting with the highest scores.
Or, they could secretly pull the IP address records from the ISP and match them up with the timestamps on the posts. Then, armed with the IP address list, they could poll some other "hot sites". If someone is posting here and at...let's say...NRA.org or aljazeera.net, you've got a fairly good indication of who the trouble makers might be.
And armed with the IP addresses, you can get their name, address, SSN, bank records, credit history, the works.
Now that I think about it, I'm going to see exactly where I can go with this...
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
-
Dreamtwister
- Intermediate Crude
-
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mon 06 Feb 2006, 04:00:00
-
by Bytesmiths » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 14:55:43
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bytesmiths', 'O')f course, any of us who are writing such things will get on some list, no?
... and several posters here are downright belligerant toward the administration.
Must be a very long list as we can add the 911 truthers and many other such groups as well.
Unfortunately, the US has perfected the art of information warfare. There is no need to silence anyone. Most of what they do is ignore them, with the help of their consolidated grip on the media. If some "looney" does get some significant air-time, then all they have to do is trot out some "expert" who says otherwise, and send video news releases out to TV stations and put that "expert" on the AM talk show circuit.
The big mistake of totalitarian regimes of the past is they were "total"itarian. The US moneyed interests -- both Republicrats and Democans -- know that they only have to be "mostitarian" in their approach. Get the people back in front of their TVs as quickly as possible, and raise the terrorism alert level.
Just as Peak Oil is happening due to the "boiling frog" effect, creeping fascism works on the basis that, from day to day, week to week, month to month, the average voter can't really say things are much worse than they have been.
I'm not big on formal conspiracies. The government can't even accomplish things it is openly supposed to do, and they're going to secretly conspire to pull off a big one like bring down two prominent buildings and kill thousands of civilians? I don't think so.
But I do believe we are in the grips of an informal conspiracy, a conspiracy of the willing -- what Noam Chomsky calls "engineered consent."
It is not so much that Company Ex exec calls up Company BP exec and decides to lower gas prices before the election -- it's that no words need be spoken, they all share a common interest!
The entire mechanism for setting gasoline prices was recently influenced by JP Morgan's subtle changes in the way they value futures -- did anyone notice? No! All they notice is they have a few more dollars in their pocket after filling the tank, and by god we're fortunate to live in the greatest country on earth (they hear that on TV all the time) and don't "cut-n-run" and do "stay the course."
So, there's a "one-two" punch going on here. The moneyed interests don't have to conspire to engineer consent on the producer side -- they all know what's good for them! Then on the consumer side are the sleepwalkers -- JH Kunstler calls it "consensus trance" -- the notion that everything is going to be all right.
These two forces are together forging a Perfect Storm. So I don't think concentration camps for us rabble-rousers will be necessary for quite some time. The hoi-poli have willingly put themselves in their own concentration camp. Thought control of the masses is subtle, non-organized, unconscious, and very real.
:::: Jan Steinman, Communication Steward,
EcoReality, a forming sustainable community. Be the change! ::::
-
Bytesmiths
- Tar Sands
-
- Posts: 730
- Joined: Wed 27 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Salt Spring Island, Cascadia
-
by Wednesday » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 15:42:27
I speculate that it is housing for the new debt-induced slave class.
I've heard theories that there are direction markers on the back of ordinary road signs, so I took a look and some of them ARE marked. No idea what that means.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
~Friedrich Nietzsche~
-
Wednesday
- Tar Sands
-
- Posts: 763
- Joined: Wed 29 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
- Location: Central Texas
-
by Bytesmiths » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 15:49:31
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wednesday', 'I') speculate that it is housing for the new debt-induced slave class.
From
BeyondPeak.com:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jan Steinman', 'B')y the early '40's, feudalism returned with a vengeance. Anyone who survived the property crash of 2019 could hire armies of starving laborers for a pittance. Anyone who had mortgages in 2019 lost their land in the next few years. The US Supreme Court gave its blessing to indentured servitude way back in 2022, Chief Justice Roberts wryly noting, "at least they're not slaves." (In a lone dissenting opinion, Justice Alieto argued that the court did not go far enough; many of the founding fathers owned slaves, and therefore, slavery actually was constitutional.)
:::: Jan Steinman, Communication Steward,
EcoReality, a forming sustainable community. Be the change! ::::
-
Bytesmiths
- Tar Sands
-
- Posts: 730
- Joined: Wed 27 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Salt Spring Island, Cascadia
-
by NEOPO » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 16:09:37
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'D')oes pissed off and angry = belligerance? if so then ok
In this case, yes it does.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'M')ust be a very long list as we can add the 911 truthers and many other such groups as well.
Lists cost next to nothing. If they are already monitoring "hot topics" like PO, it's not much more difficult to do a threat assessment of every poster. Watch:
Without using my previous knowledge of posters here, I'll perform a couple of searches. First, I'll search for "Bush + idiot" and this is what I get from the first page:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '
emailking 1
Carlhole 1
evilgenius 1
Elan_Rasa 1
gego 1
rwwff 1
KhanCEO 1
Clouseau2 1
lateralus 1
galacticsurfer 1
MountainHiker 1
nwildmand 1
NEOPO 1
')
Now, there is also a thread entitled "Is Bush an idiot?", so I'll flag that particular thread to be actually read by a person:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic23994.html')
Now, I'll assign all of those posters a value of 1. Next, I'll preform a search for "allah":
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '
DantesPeak 1
seldom_seen 1
nwildmand 2
americandream 1
Raphael 1
Kachina 1
Eli 1
Aaron 1
galacticsurfer 2
rwwff 2
Heineken 1
Chicken_Little 1
')
Now I'll assign those posters 1 point as well. Finally, I'll do a search for "rebellion" to weed out most of the casual discussion, and since this is a serious search, assign all of those hits an additional 2 points:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '
AgentR 2
gego 3
Roy 2
Dreamtwister 2
smallpoxgirl 2
NEOPO 3
threadbear 2
Zardoz 2
Miki 2
rwwff 4
seahorse 2
')
Of course a more comprehensive search could be done just as easily. You could also for example, include some searches to reduce peoples' scores. It might help to eliminate some false positives (Notice rwwff's score is higher than everyone else's? Especially if you include AgentR, which they almost certainly would with an IP address comparison. Or maybe it's not a false positive at all?)
Then, armed with this list (which took me longer to type out than it did to perform), they could search for all posts for personal review, starting with the highest scores.
Or, they could secretly pull the IP address records from the ISP and match them up with the timestamps on the posts. Then, armed with the IP address list, they could poll some other "hot sites". If someone is posting here and at...let's say...NRA.org or aljazeera.net, you've got a fairly good indication of who the trouble makers might be.
And armed with the IP addresses, you can get their name, address, SSN, bank records, credit history, the works.
Now that I think about it, I'm going to see exactly where I can go with this...
Was all that really neccessary? and are you that afraid or are you like me and simply see it as awareness?
Plus I never once said bush was an idiot
Bytesmith - although I agree with much of what you are saying I most definately part at the point where you wish to believe in their "incompetence".
Is the fact that we were lied to about WMD's - incompetence?
Data concerning global warming is being suppressed - incompetence?
PNAC and how the plan seems to be falling perfectly into place - incompetence?
Iraq has yet to embrace democracy - incompetence?
PO is still being suppressed - incompetence?
No - none of this is incompetence.
IMHO believing that is part of the trance....sorry
Yep unconscious and very very real indeed.
Not big on informal conspiracies?
Have you seen
LOOSE CHANGE?
I think some good people are speaking about something before they have all of the information.
Sorry but this rabbit hole is a bit deeper then most wish to believe.
It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.
-
NEOPO
- Permanently Banned
-
- Posts: 3588
- Joined: Sun 15 May 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: THE MATRIX
-
by Bytesmiths » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 17:12:42
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', '.').. although I agree with much of what you are saying I most definately part at the point where you wish to believe in their "incompetence".
I never used that word. Your putting it in quotes in this context is incompetent. :-)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'N')ot big on informal conspiracies?
I never wrote that. I said:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bytesmiths', 'I')'m not big on
formal conspiracies... But I do believe we are in the grips of an
informal conspiracy.
I think we are in "heated agreement" here, but I would appreciate your taking a bit more care with attributions and quotations.
:::: Jan Steinman, Communication Steward,
EcoReality, a forming sustainable community. Be the change! ::::
-
Bytesmiths
- Tar Sands
-
- Posts: 730
- Joined: Wed 27 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Salt Spring Island, Cascadia
-
by Dreamtwister » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 17:22:47
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'W')as all that really neccessary?
No more so than quoting my entire post...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'a')nd are you that afraid or are you like me and simply see it as awareness?
Fear is meant to warn you of danger, not to make you afraid of it. I'm going to go with the latter.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'P')lus I never once said bush was an idiot
That hardly matters. If one were so inclined as to bother to datamine this website for dissenters, your score would be only slightly higher than my own anyway. One single phrase on it's own doesn't mean much, but taken in aggregate, it can be pretty damning. But let's look at what made you show up on my first search:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'I') know most think Bush is an idiot but I agree with him if he truly believes we are all addicted.
On it's own, not very interesting (which is why the search was only weighted as a "1"). But look what you were saying in a search rated as a "2":
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'D')ude - they better just kill me if they wanna fuck around - I will take that camp over and lead a rebellion!!!
Far more damaging. This is where they check off the "dissenter" box.
[x] Dissenter
And that was just the first occurance. Look at the others:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'I')f anything led me to the fine art of rebellion it was this worlds fuc*ed up view of pot.
[x] Drug user
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'Y')ou see I am leaving what you call "the grid" and also what you may see as "the system" because along the way and parcel to the pursuit of relative sustainability I realized that this was the true rebellion taking place and this indeed may be the real reason my heart keeps telling me to "go for it" and "do something different with your life" and "make a change by making a good example" and "show others that it can be done with relative comfort and you dont have to go run off like some survivalist to make it through post peak and beyond" yes funny a heart could be saying so much but I believe mine is.
[x] Survivalist
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gego', 'I')f rebellion happens, I think it might be more like the situation in Iraq today where it is hit and run whle open fighting with the well armed army is avoided. I suspect that visible government officials and employees would be more targets, and of course a situation like the American War Between the States could alternatively take place again.
Hope springs eternal
[x] Assasination fantasies
It's already painting a pretty grim picture, and this is with only a gentle prodding of the search feature. The fact that you chose as your handle a pop culture icon of rebellion doesn't help, either.
Now please bear in mind, this isn't an attack on you; I generally agree with a lot of what you say. I'm just trying to point out how easy it is to build a workup on someone, with a fairly high degree of accuracy. Did you notice how many names on that list could correctly be identified as opposition to current policy? Imagine what a serious datamining effort would come up with.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
-
Dreamtwister
- Intermediate Crude
-
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mon 06 Feb 2006, 04:00:00
-
by NEOPO » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 17:47:17
ahahahah ......stop it !
I know - I am just attempting to poke fun at a very fucked up situation.
anyways to continue the "fun" do you think an eco villager is a survivalist in TPTB eyes?
If someone says bush is an idiot do you think that is dissention in their opinion?
I traverse the web and see statements like these posted virtually everywhere - do ya think "they" are trying to encourage people?
Beyond this...... use your powers and show us how PMS and agentr are neocons
It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.
-
NEOPO
- Permanently Banned
-
- Posts: 3588
- Joined: Sun 15 May 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: THE MATRIX
-
by Dreamtwister » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 18:11:28
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'a')nyways to continue the "fun" do you think an eco villager is a survivalist in TPTB eyes?
If someone says bush is an idiot do you think that is dissention in their opinion?
Again, individually the statements don't mean much. It's not until they are taken in aggregate that they start to tell a story.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'I') traverse the web and see statements like these posted virtually everywhere - do ya think "they" are trying to encourage people?
Everywhere? No, probably not. But we know "they" entrap people all the time. Remember those clowns from Florida who met with an "Al Qada operative" who turned out to be an FBI agent? Or the infamous "Red Squads"? Or what they did to that guy at Ruby Ridge?
Again, political discourse
in and of itself isn't enough to raise attention. People who talk politics online tend towards hyperbole and meanngless rhetoric. But when taken with certain other topics (like PO), you can start to build a fairly accurate profile of a person.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'B')eyond this...... use your powers and show us how PMS and agentr are neocons
I'll save that for when there's another gun grabber in the White House.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
-
Dreamtwister
- Intermediate Crude
-
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mon 06 Feb 2006, 04:00:00
-
by threadbear » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 18:19:42
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bytesmiths', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bytesmiths', 'O')f course, any of us who are writing such things will get on some list, no?
... and several posters here are downright belligerant toward the administration.
Must be a very long list as we can add the 911 truthers and many other such groups as well.
Unfortunately, the US has perfected the art of information warfare. There is no need to silence anyone. Most of what they do is ignore them, with the help of their consolidated grip on the media. If some "looney" does get some significant air-time, then all they have to do is trot out some "expert" who says otherwise, and send video news releases out to TV stations and put that "expert" on the AM talk show circuit.
The big mistake of totalitarian regimes of the past is they were "total"itarian. The US moneyed interests -- both Republicrats and Democans -- know that they only have to be "mostitarian" in their approach. Get the people back in front of their TVs as quickly as possible, and raise the terrorism alert level.
Just as Peak Oil is happening due to the "boiling frog" effect, creeping fascism works on the basis that, from day to day, week to week, month to month, the average voter can't really say things are much worse than they have been.
I'm not big on formal conspiracies. The government can't even accomplish things it is openly supposed to do, and they're going to secretly conspire to pull off a big one like bring down two prominent buildings and kill thousands of civilians? I don't think so.
But I do believe we are in the grips of an informal conspiracy, a conspiracy of the willing -- what Noam Chomsky calls "engineered consent."
It is not so much that Company Ex exec calls up Company BP exec and decides to lower gas prices before the election -- it's that no words need be spoken, they all share a common interest!
The entire mechanism for setting gasoline prices was recently influenced by JP Morgan's subtle changes in the way they value futures -- did anyone notice? No! All they notice is they have a few more dollars in their pocket after filling the tank, and by god we're fortunate to live in the greatest country on earth (they hear that on TV all the time) and don't "cut-n-run" and do "stay the course."
So, there's a "one-two" punch going on here. The moneyed interests don't have to conspire to engineer consent on the producer side -- they all know what's good for them! Then on the consumer side are the sleepwalkers -- JH Kunstler calls it "consensus trance" -- the notion that everything is going to be all right.
These two forces are together forging a Perfect Storm. So I don't think concentration camps for us rabble-rousers will be necessary for quite some time. The hoi-poli have willingly put themselves in their own concentration camp. Thought control of the masses is subtle, non-organized, unconscious, and very real.
Chomsky doesn't seem to take his worthy idea of consent being manufactured, one step further. What happens when consent can no longer be manufactured? What happens when you bend reality to the point that you're telling Joe Six Pack how well he's doing when he knows damned well he's not.
In order to continue to "manufacture consent" the neo-conservatives have to tell people lies which are at odds with their actual experience. Tell someone who is not intellectually inclined, anything, outside of their direct experience, and they might buy it. But telling Joe Six Pack that he's doing well because the Dow is over 12000 won't work. He just may rebel.
Chomsky described neo-liberal soft fascism very well. Unfortunately, he is completely out of his league describing the the threat of international fascism, resurrected in the US, by the neo-conservatives. He's still fighting a war against systemic shortcomings of common business interests. Perhaps he needs to go back to school and get a degree in criminology to understand what is actually going on.
It's night time in America and while academics try to understand the current situation through the lens of neo-liberal corruption, there are people with a sub-machine guns scaling the walls of their ivory tower. Wake up Amerika!
-
threadbear
- Expert
-
- Posts: 7577
- Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
-
by PrairieMule » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 18:57:27
Hello Mother, Hello Fatha,
Here I am at Camp Tostada,
Didn't need a Court Order,
for the UN camps south of the border!
All the Contracters form Blackwater,
use dissenters as gun fodder,
made new friends in the breadline,
and the food is laced with stricknine!
No, I don't want to scare scare ya,
but my cellmate has malaria,
you remember the Mule, who posted funny zingers?
he was found missing fingers!
This is a place for the bitchy,
and jumpsuits are very itchy,
And the sneakers have no laces,
and the guards have angry faces!
Wait a minute we got cable,
Who put Mcdonald's on the table?
Diet Coke? Gee thats better..
Congressman Ron Paul kindly disregard this letter!
If you give a man a fish you will have kept him from hunger for a day. If you teach a man to fish he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
-
PrairieMule
- Expert
-
- Posts: 2927
- Joined: Fri 02 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: In a Nigerian compound surrounded by mighty dignataries
-
by Bytesmiths » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 19:07:14
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')n order to continue to "manufacture consent" the neo-conservatives have to tell people lies which are at odds with their actual experience. Tell someone who is not intellectually inclined, anything, outside of their direct experience, and they might buy it. But telling Joe Six Pack that he's doing well because the Dow is over 12000 won't work. He just may rebel.
I disagree. All you
really need to do is convince Joe Six Pack that he's doing better than the person next door, or down the street, or east of the tracks.
I wish I could attribute this, but I recall reading that some 60% of people believe they are in the top 10% of income. Do not underestimate the power of willing self-delusion!
Remember: this is coming from two directions: engineered consent from the top down, and consensus trance from the bottom up. That's why I included the Niemoller quote -- people don't feel so bad about how bad they feel as long as they can see people who are worse! That's sadly perverse, but I think it's going to be an ongoing theme: "Well, at least things aren't
that bad!" and "Well, things
could be worse!" So sayeth the frog, as the meat began to drop off its bones.
The people who should be revolting are too busy surviving: the working poor. When the race riots broke out some 40 years ago, those people were past thinking about survival -- they were totally down and out, sleeping in the streets and eating from dumpsters.
Today's bottom 20% are Wall Mart and Burger King employees, and they receive enough caloric energy today to make them attractive to rendering plants tomorrow.
Unless and until significant numbers of people cannot feed themselves or find shelter, there will be no revolt. But as long as the average caloric intake of the lower 20% is 200% of what is needed to survive, and as long as they have a warm place to sleep, there will be no revolt. There's a big difference between low-paying jobs and no jobs!
So I agree with Wednesday, that any sign of concentration camps are more likely going to be low-income housing for Wall Mart employees. The state already supplies (barely, poorly) their medical needs.
:::: Jan Steinman, Communication Steward,
EcoReality, a forming sustainable community. Be the change! ::::
-
Bytesmiths
- Tar Sands
-
- Posts: 730
- Joined: Wed 27 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Salt Spring Island, Cascadia
-
by threadbear » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 19:26:17
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bytesmiths', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')n order to continue to "manufacture consent" the neo-conservatives have to tell people lies which are at odds with their actual experience. Tell someone who is not intellectually inclined, anything, outside of their direct experience, and they might buy it. But telling Joe Six Pack that he's doing well because the Dow is over 12000 won't work. He just may rebel.
I disagree. All you
really need to do is convince Joe Six Pack that he's doing better than the person next door, or down the street, or east of the tracks.
I wish I could attribute this, but I recall reading that some 60% of people believe they are in the top 10% of income. Do not underestimate the power of willing self-delusion!
Remember: this is coming from two directions: engineered consent from the top down, and consensus trance from the bottom up. That's why I included the Niemoller quote -- people don't feel so bad about how bad they feel as long as they can see people who are worse! That's sadly perverse, but I think it's going to be an ongoing theme: "Well, at least things aren't
that bad!" and "Well, things
could be worse!" So sayeth the frog, as the meat began to drop off its bones.
The people who should be revolting are too busy surviving: the working poor. When the race riots broke out some 40 years ago, those people were past thinking about survival -- they were totally down and out, sleeping in the streets and eating from dumpsters.
Today's bottom 20% are Wall Mart and Burger King employees, and they receive enough caloric energy today to make them attractive to rendering plants tomorrow.
Unless and until significant numbers of people cannot feed themselves or find shelter, there will be no revolt. But as long as the average caloric intake of the lower 20% is 200% of what is needed to survive, and as long as they have a warm place to sleep, there will be no revolt. There's a big difference between low-paying jobs and no jobs!
So I agree with Wednesday, that any sign of concentration camps are more likely going to be low-income housing for Wall Mart employees. The state already supplies (barely, poorly) their medical needs.
Great points, Bytesmith--and I admit, it's hard to imagine morbidly obese people in full anarchist mode protesting "the man.
I suppose if consent can't be manufactured, anger can be redirected too, against illegal immigrants, for example.
But what about the 50% who have been vaccinated against future propaganda by being shaken out of their complacency by the blatancy of today's propaganda?You've done a good job analysing how the lower say, 40% will respond, but what about everyone else? Many Americans have identified the real enemy already, and many of them will take to the streets if there is a republican sweep in the mid-terms. Those people will get VERY rough treatment. It will be very V for Vendetta, methinks.
We'll see, Bytesmith. You could be right. Part of me hopes you are. The other part dearly hopes you aren't. When push comes to shove, (and that is a perfect description of what is going on, really) Americans, generally speaking, value liberty. They've been brainwashed, spun, and fluffed dry, but when it's all said and done, you can only push a Yank so far. I think it's almost genetic.
-
threadbear
- Expert
-
- Posts: 7577
- Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
-
by NEOPO » Mon 23 Oct 2006, 20:47:05
Rage Against The Machine - 'Township Rebellion/Freedom'('94)
Wha?? I didn't say it!!
Tom morello is the MFN man!!!
whats that on his t shirt???
wha? I didnt say it!!
"sweet" transition into free dumb.... ya?
I am a'scared to say the "F" word.....
I hear "they" are also looking for people who say the "C" word 'onstitution so I wont say that anymore either....better safe then locked up inside some secret prison or worse.....
dont hurt me daddy i will be a good boy i wont do it again no daddy no!!!
It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.
-
NEOPO
- Permanently Banned
-
- Posts: 3588
- Joined: Sun 15 May 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: THE MATRIX
-
by Vexed » Wed 25 Oct 2006, 15:06:06
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', '.')..I love the picture of the camp, man those are ugly eh? IT would be torture just to have to live in one of those things.
Not if you're one of the people those tiny little places were built for:
http://inhabitat.com/blog/2006/03/13/of ... antytowns/For them, it's paradise. It absolutely beats the hell out of a shantytown. Note the bright, happy colors they're being painted. That's a Mexican tradition: The color of your house says a lot about what is going on inside.
Thanks for the heads up Zardoz. I just picked the pic randomly off Google.
I think my point in general still stands though.
-
Vexed
- Coal
-
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Fri 13 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
-
by Kristen » Wed 25 Oct 2006, 21:15:05
maybe they are get out of debt camps.
-
Kristen
- Tar Sands
-
- Posts: 711
- Joined: Mon 17 Jul 2006, 03:00:00
- Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
-
Return to Open Topic Discussion
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
