[Wickan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o, what are some of the facts about fluoride? According to the handbook, Clinical Toxicology of Commercial Products, fluoride is more poisonous than lead and just slightly less poisonous than arsenic. It is a cumulative poison that accumulates in bone over the years. According to the Physicians Desk Reference, "in hypersensitive individuals, fluorides occasionally cause skin eruptions such as atopic dermatitis, eczema, or urticaria. Gastric distress, headache, and weakness have also been reported. These hypersensitive reactions usually disappear promptly after discontinuation of the fluoride."

[EnergyUnlimited]

I do not see anything wrong with fluoridation of water as done now. Help to save money on dentist. Neither fluoride is an extraordinary poison. In fact it is an element very helpful (even if not essential) for mammals life.
NB. Arsenic mentioned by original poster is also beneficial, if administered in small amounts only. Something observed in Bangladesh is obviously too much.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wickan', 'D')id you know that sodium Fluoride is also one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin Nerve Gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl FLUORIDE) - (Yes, folks the same Sarin Nerve Gas that terrorists released on a crowded Japanese subway train!). Let me repeat: the truth the American public needs to understand is the fact that Sodium Fluoride is nothing more (or less) than a hazardous waste by-product of the nuclear and aluminum industries. In addition to being the primary ingredient in rat and cockroach poisons, it is also a main ingredient in anesthetic, hypnotic, and psychiatric drugs as well as military NERVE GAS! Why, oh why then is it allowed to be added to the toothpastes and drinking water of the American people?

[smallpoxgirl]

This is a complicated issue for me. The United States Preventative Services Task Force, sort of the gospel of preventative health, says I'm supposed to recommend floride suplements for kids that live in areas w/ unfloridated water. The stuff clearly is "toxic" industrial waste. I'm pretty inherintly biased against the whole idea of "toxic waste is good for you". The problem is that there are reams of studies that flouride does decrease dental decay. I can't find buttkiss in the way of reasoned footnoted arguement that says that it is harmful in the doses in tapwater. All the arguements against it seem to start off with "Fluoride a key dumbing down ingredient of Prozac and Sarin nerve gas -- poisons of choice for tyrant rats." Dumbing down ingredient? What the crap is that? I don't really care that consuming too much flouride is harmful. What's that prove? There are people that make themselves sick by drinking too much water for pete sake. All medicines have a therapeudic range and a toxic range. Take too much of anything and you'll get sick. I also am not too excited when people jump up and down about it could cause flourosis or rare leg sarcomas or some such. I've never seen a case of flourosis. I've never seen a rare leg sarcoma. I see lots of people, myself included, who have cavities or dental fillings. I am very convinced that mercury amalgum fillings are dangerous, so it seems to me that preventing the need for those fillings is quite smart.

The biggest problem that I see is this. OK. So if we accept that flouride is a usefull medication in children to prevent tooth decay (and I pretty much have at this point), then what's a reasonable way to deliver that? Putting it in tap water seems to me an incredibly random way of delivering it to kids. First of all, adults are just as likely to drink the water as kids. It doesn't help the adults, and maybe causes side effects. Secondly there is an incredibly random distribution of how much tap water kids drink. Lots of people in the US drink essentially no tap water. Some people drink a lot. Doesn't make for consistent dosing. Also to we really need to put medicine in our shower water? In our commodes? Do we really need to water our lawns with medicine?

If you were looking for a rational scheme to get the flouride into the kids that need it, a better way would probably be to flouride supplement soda and other sugary drinks. Would still get some adults, but at least you wouldn't be pouring it on your lawn.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'W')e have well, so no flourine. So the kids get fluorine in pills now as part of a vitamin.

Controlled, regular, and we can cut it when there is no more benefit.

[Venerye]

I just want to add one thing here. I'm not going to defend "fluoride is toxic waste" etc. but it is true that susceptible members of the population can be adversely affected by cumulative amounts of fluoride from drinking water, certain foods, toothpastes, cooking implements.... The population I'm speaking of in particular are those people suffering from thyroid abnormalities, especially hypothyroidism. It is estimated that 10% of the [US] population may have at least low-level hypothyroidism, most of which are undiagnosed. We chart and teach others how to chart fertility cycles and I've come to the conclusion based on basal temperatures and other symptoms I personally have low thyroid function and 30% of the women we've taught probably do too.

Anyway, what does this have to do with fluoride? The "fluoride-iodine antagonism" is well documented. Regardless of whether or not sufficient iodine is present in the body, all fluoride compounds inhibit thyroid function.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'I') think, that fluoridation of water is good in socially derelict/deprived areas as well as in poorer countries, where parents will not bother to buy any food supplements/vitamins to their children anyway. "Controlled" delivery may not be possible in similar circumstances.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'I') think, that fluoridation of water is good in socially derelict/deprived areas as well as in poorer countries, where parents will not bother to buy any food supplements/vitamins to their children anyway. "Controlled" delivery may not be possible in similar circumstances.

[NEOPO]

yeah devil juice yet giving the entire US population flouride just so you can get kids to drink it is what? perfectly reasonable?

alcohol does kill brain cells - people do!!!

[bobcousins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'N')o European country flouridates their water and their teeth are fine. The fact we in USA need to dump industrial waste products into our water supply for all to drink suggests the depth of our failed medical system.

[nyscof]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bobcousins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '.')

[jupiters_release]

Date Published: 22/09/2000
Author: George Glasser

Preprare yourself for the tragic fable of the chemist, the water board, the dentist and his life.


Once, there was a dentist. His name was Lester. For many years, like all the other dentists he knew, Lester believed that fluoride in the drinking water was good for everyone. Like all the other dentists, Lester had learnt in dental school that fluoride reduces tooth decay. And, like all the other dentists, Lester believed that fluoride was fluoride.

Then, one day, he met a chemist and began discussing drinking water fluoridation.

The chemist asked what kind of fluoride was being used to fluoridate the drinking water. Lester replied: ‘We are simply adjusting the fluoride level in the water by adding one part per million of, well, just fluoride.’

‘There is no such thing as “just fluoride”,’ said the chemist.

Lester scratched his head. ‘But they told me that it was only fluoride they are adding to the water.’

The chemist laughed heartily. ‘Fluorine is the most reactive, electronegative element and it’s never found alone in nature,’ he said. ‘There are many kinds of fluorides: for instance, calcium fluoride is found naturally in water. Then there are other fluorides such as lead fluoride, aluminium fluoride, etc. If you add fluoride to the water it has to be a compound. You can’t just add fluoride to the water, so which one is it?’

Lester felt silly. He didn’t know.

The next day Lester went to the library to check the chemistry books and learnt that calcium fluoride is, indeed, found naturally in the water. He also discovered that calcium fluoride is almost insoluble and could not be easily absorbed by the body. And his friend the chemist was quite right - there were innumerable fluoride compounds.

Now intrigued, Lester looked up some scientific studies about water fluoridation. He read that in laboratory tests, workers use a very pure grade of sodium fluoride and purified water to do their research. He discovered that sodium fluoride is taken up by the body much more readily than calcium fluoride. His friend was right. The dentist wondered how anyone could say that calcium fluoride is the same as sodium fluoride.

The next day, Lester called his water department to ask if they were adding sodium fluoride or calcium fluoride to his drinking water. The WD manager said that they were adding a product called silicofluorides to the water. The WD manager said they bought a very low grade product because it would be too expensive to use a good grade and, anyway, the public health people would not pay for a good quality calcium fluoride, because, they said, fluoride is fluoride, no matter where it comes from. By now, Lester was completely bewildered.

‘Where do you buy these silicofluorides from?’ he asked. The WD manager said that the silicofluorides – known as hexafluorsilicic acid – are the toxic waste product from phosphate fertilizer pollution scrubbers. The dentist was aghast. ‘You have to be crazy putting that stuff in the water!’

The water department manager agreed because, he said, the hexafluorsilicic acid also contains other toxic substances such as arsenic, beryllium, mercury, lead and many more. He said he didn’t drink the city water because many of the contaminants in the fluoridation agent cause health problems. ‘For instance,’ he said, ‘arsenic causes prostate, bladder, kidney, skin and lung cancers and there is no safe level for arsenic.’

Lester was appalled. He asked the manager why he did not stop fluoridating the water with this pollution scrubber liquor. ‘And why would anyone add any amount of a known carcinogen to the water?’

Shrugging, the manager replied, ‘I’m just doing my job. The public health people have their agenda, and I have a family to feed.’

After a sleepless night, Lester contemplated the fluoridation dilemma as he soaped himself in the shower. ‘They say they are simply adjusting the level of natural fluoride in the water – which is calcium fluoride – but they are using a pure grade of sodium fluoride and very pure water for the rat experiments in the laboratory. But they are adding toxic pollution scrubber liquor to my drinking water!’ It didn’t make sense.
He called a man at the dental association and told him what he had learnt. The man said, coldly: ‘If you value your licence to practise, don’t ever mention this subject again!’

Lester was shocked.

He had worked hard and was very proud of his practice and his two classic cars. He couldn’t bear to lose them. He thought about his wife and family and how they would miss their luxury home with its four bathrooms and a jacuzzi, the private schools and foreign vacations. After a while he made a decision. ‘We won’t drink the tap water. We’ll buy bottled water.’ But he was not a happy man as he walked into the reception room and greeted his first patient of the day.

Several months later he visited his friend the doctor for his annual check-up and was stunned to learn that he had prostate cancer. He recalled the words of the water department manager. ‘Arsenic causes prostate cancer.’

Lester was shattered. He couldn’t understand it. Yet there was a reason. Despite taking care to drink only bottled water, Lester didn’t know that much more of the pollution-laced tap water is absorbed through the skin from bathing and washing clothes.

Poor Lester.

Although 64–91 per cent of exposure to waterborne contaminants is known to occur via dermal absorption, no studies have ever been done to determine the toxicity of pollution scrubber liquor – the fluoride used in water fluoridation schemes.

[Dreamtwister]

I have no opinion on this issue.

Believe me, nobody is more surprised about that than I was!

[dukey]

If you believe otherwise, you are a conspiracy theorist!

[flash width=400 height=326]http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=8903910725020792574&hl=en[/flash]

[jupiters_release]

cue in smallpoxgirl.... or not.

[mmasters]

The first occurrence of fluoridated drinking water on Earth was found in Germany's Nazi prison camps. The Gestapo had little concern about fluoride's supposed effect on children's teeth; their alleged reason for mass-medicating water with sodium fluoride was to sterilize humans and force the people in their concentration camps into calm submission. (Ref. book: "The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben" by Joseph Borkin.)

"I was told of this entire scheme by a German chemist who was an official of the great IG Farben chemical industries and was also prominent in the Nazi movement at the time. I say this with all the earnestness and sincerity of a scientist who has spent nearly 20 years' research into the chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology of fluorine--any person who drinks artificially fluorinated water for a period of one year or more will never again be the same person mentally or physically." CHARLES E. PERKINS, Chemist, 2 October 1954.

Quoting Einstein's nephew, Dr. E.H. Bronner (a chemist who had also been a prisoner of war during WWII) in a letter printed in The Catholic Mirror, Springfield, MA, January 1952:

"As a research chemist of established standing, I built within the past 22 years, 3 American chemical plants and licensed 6 of my 53 patents. Based on my years of practical experience in the health-food and chemical field, let me warn: fluoridation of drinking water is criminal insanity, sure national suicide. Don't do it. "

"Even in small quantities, sodium fluoride is a deadly poison to which no effective antidote has been found. Every exterminator knows that it is the most efficient rat-killer. ... Sodium fluoride is entirely different from organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate needed by our bodies and provided by nature, in God's great providence and love, to build and strengthen our bones and our teeth. This organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate, derived from proper foods, is an edible organic salt, insoluble in water and assimilable by the human body, whereas the non-organic sodium fluoride used in fluoridating water is instant poison to the body and fully water soluble. The body refuses to assimilate it. "Careful, bonafide laboratory experimentation by conscientious, patriotic research chemists, and actual medical experience, have both revealed that instead of preserving or promoting 'dental health,' fluoridated drinking water destroys teeth, before adulthood and after, by the destructive mottling and other pathological conditions it actually causes in them, and also creates many other very grave pathological conditions in the internal organisms of bodies consuming it. How can it be called a "health" plan? What's behind it?

"That any so-called "doctors" would persuade a civilized nation to add voluntarily a deadly poison to its drinking water systems is unbelievable. It is the height of criminal."

---------------------------------- Earliest available Russian fluoride evidence:

"I, Oliver Kenneth Goff, was a member of the Communist Party and the Young Communist League, from May 2, 1936, to October 9, 1939. During this period of time, I operated under the alias of John Keats with number 18-B-2. My testimony before the Government is in Volume 9 of the Un-American Activities Report for 1939.

"While a member of the Communist Party, I attended Communist training schools in New York and Wisconsin ... and we were trained in the revolutionary overthrow of the U.S. Government. "... We discussed quite thoroughly the fluoridation of water supplies and how we were using it in Russia as a tranquilizer in the prison camps. The leaders of our school felt that if it could be induced into the American water supply, it would bring about a spirit of lethargy in the nation, where it could keep the general public docile during a steady encroachment of Communism. We also discussed the fact that keeping a store of deadly fluoride near the water reservoir would be advantageous during the time of the revolution, as it would give us opportunity to dump this poison into the water supply and either kill off the populace or threaten them with liquidation, so that they would surrender to obtain fresh water.

A book by Dr. John Yiamouyiannis, titled "Fluoride, The Aging Factor," shows that the drug causes a premature aging process. He notes that in areas where fluoride is consumed in the drinking water, there are higher rates of bone disorders (skeletal fluorosis, osteoporosis and arthritic pain) and people suffer from brown decaying teeth.

"Fluoride is a poison!" Yiamouyiannis warns." The 1984 issue of Clinical Toxicology of Commercial Products lists fluoride as more poisonous than lead and just slightly less poisonous than arsenic. It has been used as a pesticide for mice, rats and other small pests. A 10-pound infant could be killed by 1/100 of an ounce and a 100-pound adult could be killed by 1/10 of an ounce of fluoride. The Akron Regional Poison Center indicates that a 7-ounce tube of toothpaste contains 199 mg. of fluoride, more than enough to kill a 25-pound child."

http://www.cleanwatercouncil.com/index. ... 11&meid=11

[dukey]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'c')ue in smallpoxgirl.... or not.