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Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, security

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Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, security

Unread postby Jenab6 » Thu 19 Oct 2006, 11:45:56

"There are too many people, and y'all are the extras," the former sheriff said, as he and his men lifted their rifles.

When there are more people than space and food to keep them going, somebody's going to die. And at least some of the time, the deaths will be hastened by killing.

Aside from trying to hide ... which is probably a futile strategy for most of us ... what are some good plans for dealing with people who think they're the Chosen Ones who ought to survive by tossing you out of the lifeboat?

The Lily Pond is more than half covered!

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Re: Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, securit

Unread postby NeoPeasant » Thu 19 Oct 2006, 12:25:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', '"')There are too many people, and y'all are the extras," the former sheriff said, as he and his men lifted their rifles.

When there are more people than space and food to keep them going, somebody's going to die. And at least some of the time, the deaths will be hastened by killing.

Aside from trying to hide ... which is probably a futile strategy for most of us ... what are some good plans for dealing with people who think they're the Chosen Ones who ought to survive by tossing you out of the lifeboat?

The Lily Pond is more than half covered!

Jerry Abbott



Sometimes I get the feeling that those really in charge understand that about 4/5ths of humanity must go, and are actively engineering things to make sure it will be the right 4/5ths.
The battle to preserve our lifestyle has already been lost. The battle to preserve our lives is just beginning.
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Re: Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, securit

Unread postby Jenab6 » Thu 19 Oct 2006, 13:01:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', '"')There are too many people, and y'all are the extras," the former sheriff said, as he and his men lifted their rifles.

When there are more people than space and food to keep them going, somebody's going to die. And at least some of the time, the deaths will be hastened by killing.

Aside from trying to hide ... which is probably a futile strategy for most of us ... what are some good plans for dealing with people who think they're the Chosen Ones who ought to survive by tossing you out of the lifeboat?

The Lily Pond is more than half covered!

Jerry Abbott

Sometimes I get the feeling that those really in charge understand that about 4/5ths of humanity must go, and are actively engineering things to make sure it will be the right 4/5ths.

Yes, that is what I think too. Of course, the only one who I know who knows for certain which 4/5ths is the right 4/5ths is me. And I'm particularly skeptical about the wisdom of the currently prevailing Powers That Be. After all, they fought fratricidal wars in Europe, permitted American economic strength to be bled away by Asia, and are pleasantly looking on as a Replacement Population of mestizos floods into the USA from Mexico. All of that has got to mean something, and I suspect that it bodes nothing good for me and my kind.

So, prepare now to overturn them later. Or, if reversing their plans is impossible, then vengeance: make sure that they and theirs have not profited, when the game is finally over.
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Re: Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, securit

Unread postby NEOPO » Thu 19 Oct 2006, 13:13:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', '"')There are too many people, and y'all are the extras," the former sheriff said, as he and his men lifted their rifles.

When there are more people than space and food to keep them going, somebody's going to die. And at least some of the time, the deaths will be hastened by killing.

Aside from trying to hide ... which is probably a futile strategy for most of us ... what are some good plans for dealing with people who think they're the Chosen Ones who ought to survive by tossing you out of the lifeboat?

The Lily Pond is more than half covered!

Jerry Abbott



Sometimes I get the feeling that those really in charge understand that about 4/5ths of humanity must go, and are actively engineering things to make sure it will be the right 4/5ths.


OK 20% = APPROX 1.3 BILLION so we can keep US,UK,AU,EU and maybe canada but the rest of you people gotta go!! ;-)
It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.
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Re: Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, securit

Unread postby Ingenuity_Gap » Thu 19 Oct 2006, 14:32:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', 'A')side from trying to hide ... which is probably a futile strategy for most of us ... what are some good plans for dealing with people who think they're the Chosen Ones who ought to survive by tossing you out of the lifeboat?


You line-up people in groups of 5 and shoot 4 of them.

Rinse. Reload. Repeat.

Stop when shooters become more numerous than targets.

Tip: make sure you're on the right side of the barrel.
"The world is becoming too complex and too fast-paced to manage." - Thomas Homer-Dixon
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Re: Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, securit

Unread postby Jenab6 » Thu 19 Oct 2006, 14:52:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', '"')There are too many people, and y'all are the extras," the former sheriff said, as he and his men lifted their rifles.

When there are more people than space and food to keep them going, somebody's going to die. And at least some of the time, the deaths will be hastened by killing.

Aside from trying to hide ... which is probably a futile strategy for most of us ... what are some good plans for dealing with people who think they're the Chosen Ones who ought to survive by tossing you out of the lifeboat?

The Lily Pond is more than half covered!

Jerry Abbott



Sometimes I get the feeling that those really in charge understand that about 4/5ths of humanity must go, and are actively engineering things to make sure it will be the right 4/5ths.


OK 20% = APPROX 1.3 BILLION so we can keep US,UK,AU,EU and maybe canada but the rest of you people gotta go!! ;-)

Oh we don't even need all the US/EU/AU/CAN residents. Just the best of them will do fine. Slay everybody everywhere else, then give the rest in the West an IQ test and shoot anybody who fails.

After all, stupid cattle can be led into anything, such as...

[align=center]Souls will be SHRIEKING as they fall into HELL!
Don't you be one of them!
Join the
FOOD PATROL
Today![/align]
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Re: Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, securit

Unread postby mmasters » Thu 19 Oct 2006, 15:29:48

Yeah, it's gonna be the haves and the have-nots. Make sure you're one of the haves.
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Re: Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, securit

Unread postby KhanCEO » Fri 20 Oct 2006, 00:23:34

I know that all of the shareholders of the Federal Reserve System are white males and yes, I think they are all racists. I honestly think they will be killing a lot of brown people soon. Heck, they're already killing 1 in 40 Iraqis and allowing genocide in Sudan.Have you ever seen any white people living in a 3rd world country? (The United States doesn't count)
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Re: Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, securit

Unread postby gego » Fri 20 Oct 2006, 00:44:47

I am not sure that the criteria for survival will be what has worked in the past. A strong back and the ability to deal with dull repetitive tasks may well turn out to be much move valuable than a strong mind.

Maybe not even wealth will be always able to buy survival. If food becomes scarce enough, well entrenched county hicks with the proper skills and tools may have a much better chance than a wealthy Hollywood guy that can only make films. And if food is scarce and you have some, what kind of offer would encourage you to give up what will keep you alive; in some circumstances, all the gold in the world might not be enough.

As far as violence and avoiding plunder, I would rather be well armed in the country on terriroty very familiar to me, than being forced to roam around needing to plunder and facing the danger than every hillybilly in every farm would be jumpy as hell, shooting first and asking questions later. You know ammo is heavy and you can only carry a limited amount, but when your basement is where you resupply, the advantage goes to the farmer, plus I would rather defend than attack any day of the week.
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Re: Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, securit

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Fri 20 Oct 2006, 01:21:13

The best way to determine who should live or die is to gauge whether or not they feel killing innocent people to enhance their odds of survival or their living standard is justified and whether they are willing to act on that opinion. Yes? *bang*

TPTB are making money hand over fist. PO won't be so devastating because of sheer resource shortage, but because those on top didn't want to sacrifice their 10,000 square foot mansions and private jets. Proper attention to efficiency and addressing what is called the "people/poverty" cycle by severey reducing poverty could greatly mitigate this problem while allowing the population to stabilize. But this is the least profitable path to TPTB. Resource wars are what they prefer, as they can maximize profit in the meantime.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, securit

Unread postby gego » Fri 20 Oct 2006, 01:53:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', 'T')he best way to determine who should live or die is to gauge whether or not they feel killing innocent people to enhance their odds of survival or their living standard is justified and whether they are willing to act on that opinion. Yes? *bang*

TPTB are making money hand over fist. PO won't be so devastating because of sheer resource shortage, but because those on top didn't want to sacrifice their 10,000 square foot mansions and private jets. Proper attention to efficiency and addressing what is called the "people/poverty" cycle by severey reducing poverty could greatly mitigate this problem while allowing the population to stabilize. But this is the least profitable path to TPTB. Resource wars are what they prefer, as they can maximize profit in the meantime.


It might be justice to some extent to think that those who wage war and kill thousands of innocents should not be among the survivors, but I doubt that nature has such a sense of justice, and it is her laws which will determine who goes on and who perishes. There were plenty of violent, cruel, Nazi murderers who escaped punishment after WWII, and were actually helped by the US government and by the Catholic Church.

I think that the idea that people who lived excessive lives as compared to the average are deserving of less of a chance to survive than anyone else is not justified. If you compare your lifestyle to that of some starving third world person, then are you guilty for his starvation just because you live better than he?

The true underelying problem is overpopulation relative to the resource base. The degree of overpopulation is somewhere in the neighborhood of 5.5 to 6 billion people and you could just as easily blame people who have children as those who live what you consider to have excessive lifestyles.

Actually if I were put in a position to select I would refuse and defer to mother nature, since that, in my mind is the most equitable way for the problem to be solved.
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Re: Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, securit

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Fri 20 Oct 2006, 02:13:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'b')ut I doubt that nature has such a sense of justice, and it is her laws which will determine who goes on and who perishes.


Don't be so certain. Man is just as capable of destroying nature as nature is of destroying man.

While I agree that nature has little sense of justice, man can possess an entirely different set of values.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') think that the idea that people who lived excessive lives as compared to the average are deserving of less of a chance to survive than anyone else is not justified.


Yet they are directly impoverishing others to make enough profit to achieve those possessions and levels of consumption.

Some are born with these things, and it is perfectly understandable that it would be unjustified to remove from them those possessions. But there are others who kill to obtain or keep these possessions. One only needs to look at Iraq to blatantly see the obvious.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you compare your lifestyle to that of some starving third world person, then are you guilty for his starvation just because you live better than he?


Not necessarily. But if I don't actively seek alternatives to the companies that helped place him in that position when I can afford it, or find a way to ease their plight, then I would be quite guilty. A blatant hypocrite at that. Some more than others, but in a way, all of us 1st worlders have a level of guilt. Some is our ault, some isn't. It's endemic to our system.

But hey, I'm at least making an effort. Even designing an affordable renewable energy system that will give such people ligting or allow them to run a water pump, without them having to connect to the grid. It may not save the world, but it's a start.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he true underelying problem is overpopulation relative to the resource base. The degree of overpopulation is somewhere in the neighborhood of 5.5 to 6 billion people and you could just as easily blame people who have children as those who live what you consider to be excessive lifestyles.


Yes and no.

Our level of resource consumption is clearly unsustainable. However, this level of resource consumption is not needed to maintain the living standard that we currently enjoy. The downside to conservation is that it just doesn't generate near as much revenue for tax-hungry governments and profit-hungry industries as the current status quo. Decentralisation will lead to sustainability, and the powers that be do not like this idea.

With Europe's current levels of resource consumption, the Earth could sustain roughly 2.5 billion people at that living standard, a living standard roughly comparable to ours. Triple its efficiency for the same living standard, which is not out of the realm of possibility, and that sustainable population level becomes 7.5 billion. But in doing so, there isn't enough resources to go around to allow the elites to have an ecological footprint over 20 times greater than that of your average gluttonous American, as through adequate conservation, those lofty profits for which they buy these things just won't be made.

Children are a big problem. However, those in the 3rd world have so many of them because they want some of them to survive to care for them in their old age when no longer capable of working. It's a basic sociological maxim: poverty creates population growth. Address poverty through a more equitable economic system that fosters competition instead of favoratism, sustainability instead of growth, people instead of revenue, and freedom as opposed to totalitarianism, and our population could actually level. But there is a tipping point to where efficiency increases won't be able to allow everyone to live comfortably. Our resources are very limited, but not as much as many hardcore doomers would like us to believe. We may have reached that tipping point, but my personal hunch from what I've been able to find is that we haven't.

Either way, if we don't change the way things are currently done, we can only support 1.5 billion people. But that doesn't mean they can't be done.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ctually if I were put in a position to select I would refuse and defer to mother nature, since that, in my mind is the most equitable way for the problem to be solved.

Mother nature is anything but. she has no mercy, no conscious. She just acts. The last thing humanity would want, is for mother nature to decide to power them down for them. Humainity acts as a virus to nature. Either it can engage in a relationship of mutualism, or be fought off. Take your pick. Mother nature doesn't give two shits about us because we have done nothing for her.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, securit

Unread postby gego » Fri 20 Oct 2006, 02:48:54

The_Toecutter,

You need to make some serious money; I am sure this would change your judgement about what is proper consumption and what is evil.
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Re: Post Peak competition for food, space, resource, securit

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Fri 20 Oct 2006, 02:55:47

I have already decided I don't need that sort of money. I'd rather work less and live cheaply, than work endlessly to conform and consume as the rest of society is taught and encouraged to do so through subsidy and exploitation.

That electric car I'm building? Will be dirt cheap to run, cost parity with a gas powered economy car at under $1.50/gallon factoring in battery replacement. It will be more than capable on any race track. Bye bye oil addiction.

Generate my own electricity, pump my own water, purchase the land to learn to grow my own food(and buy local in the meantime while significantly reducing meat consumption), and I won't at all need much to live on.

A well-insulated < 500 square foot trailer won't need much energy.

Fiscal responsibility is of utmost importance.

The only barrier is the up front cost of entry. Not all Americans have this choice, but I am working towards putting myself in a position to have this choice.

I may be there, in 5 years or so. Staying in mommy and daddy's basement just won't do. That is why I decided to become an engineer.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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