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pro-Catholic Bigotry

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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby Lokutus » Tue 17 Oct 2006, 21:11:20

Dude, wake up. America is hurtling towards being a full-blown police state.
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Tue 17 Oct 2006, 21:18:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lokutus', 'D')ude, wake up. America is hurtling towards being a full-blown police state.
No it isn't. You are a full blown wacko paranoid.
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby Lokutus » Tue 17 Oct 2006, 21:21:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lokutus', 'D')ude, wake up. America is hurtling towards being a full-blown police state.
No it isn't. You are a full blown wacko paranoid.


I know you are but what am I?
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Tue 17 Oct 2006, 21:22:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lokutus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lokutus', 'D')ude, wake up. America is hurtling towards being a full-blown police state.
No it isn't. You are a full blown wacko paranoid.


I know you are but what am I?
well, when we get the whole police state thing going, I'll say, OK, you were right.
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby dukey » Tue 17 Oct 2006, 21:57:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')okutus wrote:
Dude, wake up. America is hurtling towards being a full-blown police state.
No it isn't. You are a full blown wacko paranoid. And unfortunately, "full-blown" means maggot ridden.


er, yes it IS. What bush signed today puts the legal frame work in place ..

And if you really need to put the nail in the coffin just watch some of alex jones police state videos.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?com ... a=N&tab=wv
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby AgentR » Tue 17 Oct 2006, 23:26:03

One conservative Catholic reporting as needed.

A Catholic majority area is not going to be any worse than a practicing protestant majority area; but the vast majority of the religious aren't "out to get lifestyle-x." What they mostly want is to not be confronted by lifestyle-x. So, you have to ask yourself, if you're a purple haired art-nut, "could I stand to be an art-nut, but drop the purple hair."

If you're an atheist family, in such a community, do you go all out and try to stamp out religious expression in public facilities, or is it enough to simply explain to your kids that many people believe lots of different crazy things, but are for the most part harmless if not poked.

The corollary on my side might be living in a very pro-union area.. Do I raise a rucuous because I don't want to be associated with a union, or do I just quietly send a "right to work" group twice the dollar value of my union dues and call it even. For me, I'd never say nit, I'd be the typical quiet union member showing up to work, paying their dues, and walking into the voting booth to dial in the ole "R" without saying anything.

So, it boils down to whether you want to force other people to acknowledge and react to some characteristic that makes you different. If you want acknowledgement, you also get consequences.
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby AgentR » Wed 18 Oct 2006, 00:19:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', 'A')nd I think alot of folks are that way, just go with the flow, "I'm flexible" right! The Chinese people are known for that, they have a saying about the difference between who is in power and the life they live. Basically as long as the guy in charge leaves you alone, who cares who is incharge.


The Chinese are happiest, in general, when there is only one warlord, and he's bothering someone else. Thus, by in large, several hundred million Chinese are perfectly content that the Hu Jintao Dynasty is running things, and running them with such a large degree of competence.

Personally, I think this is a very wise attitude.

But, if you want to poke a finger in the eyes of a cohesive majority, there will be consequences. No one in the US owes you a job, and only the very largest of employers has the size and scope that would make it vulnerable to legal enforcement. Thus, jobs aren't typically posted on a help-wanted board, but rather, Joe calls Jeff and says, "Hey, I need another accountant, know anyone you trust?" and Jeff responds with a name or two, both of which are almost certainly within his associated community, in this case Catholic.

So on your job complaint, by not being Catholic, you are already in the hole to the tune of 80% or so. You are only going to get the opportunity to find out about 1 in every 5 open positions, at best. Factor in the normal reject rate for jobs that have open postings, and you are going to be really digging in the dregs without even a hint of direct discrimination. If you then go to an interview for one of these open posted positions, with purple hair, chances are, just from comfort/discomfort impacts, you're going to take an even greater hit.

So basically, if you want Jeff to refer you to his friends, then you have to mix in Jeff's social circles. Jeff's social circles almost exclusively meet on the Church campus, or the Knights of Columbus hall; so you end up with the choice to join up and play along (make nice), or to exclude yourself from Jeff's social circle.

Thats the way it works. No discrimination is required.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'y')ou hear poeple saying stuff like "If the Bishop were here they would never get away with that."


Ah, the speach police arrives, you don't want people talking about their faith openly as if its laws and regulations were more important to them than those of secular government.

Trust me, and I'm not in a Catholic majority area, the presence of the Bishop, or even a protestant minister with a collar, causes a whole extra level of "make nice" in me. No economic repurcusions involved, either.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') think religion is the new race in America, it is going to be the next stand of an evil that has plagued humanity for a very long time. The distinction that needs to be made is freedom versus oppression.


You will note that I distinctly mention "wednesday evening revival tents" in more than just a few of my Peak Oil predictions.

I promise you, little ole, "Table Rock Baptist Church" in its white painted wooden building, has a thousand times the post peak organizational power that the civil government does. The mayor, council, police, and service personel, are going to be sweating bullets just to keep the roads patched and the mainstreet clear of daylight gangs. Any community outreach, charity work, or aid to people in need is going to be run almost exclusively by the various churches. These faith communities are going to run the hospitals and clinics; schools and childrens sports leagues.

If you don't want to 'blend in', then don't expect these circles of people to go out of their way to make your economic life easier.

It is entirely your choice.
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 18 Oct 2006, 00:24:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', 'I') agree on the atheist issue because freedom of religion is tolerance of other viewpoints.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Texas Constitution
Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS
Section 6 - FREEDOM OF WORSHIP
All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences. No man shall be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship, or to maintain any ministry against his consent. No human authority ought, in any case whatever, to control or interfere with the rights of conscience in matters of religion, and no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious society or mode of worship. But it shall be the duty of the Legislature to pass such laws as may be necessary to protect equally every religious denomination in the peaceable enjoyment of its own mode of public worship.


Unfortunately, monotheism lacks tolerance of other viewpoints as well...
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby AgentR » Wed 18 Oct 2006, 00:58:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'S')o, it boils down to whether you want to force other people to acknowledge and react to some characteristic that makes you different. If you want acknowledgement, you also get consequences.

So discrimination (consequences) is ok if a person "asks" for it.


Its not ok, and "asking for it" isn't part of the question. Its a social thing, you either mix, or you don't; you either make people comfortable or uncomfortable. And while there are a few who do discriminate quite forcefully; most of the interactions that would impact a job seeker would never rise to that level.

When an interviewer settles on a small number of candidates who have adequate qualifications, the selection decision is most likely to be made based either upon comfort, reliability, whatever.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f the majority tells me to wear my skirt a certain length, or shave my face and I say no, I should expect consequences?


Expect Jeff to not give your name as a suggested hire to Joe. Right, wrong, or indifferent, thats how most small and medium size company hires work; with the occassional head-hunter call when really desperate.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')nti-discrimination laws are meant to protect against.

meant, smeant. Let me know how thats working out for you. Those laws really only apply to very large companies; when you get to small companies, or even medium ones that are technically obligated by them; the natural hiring process moots the issue.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i')f you don't feel any need to standout. I hope you never do feel ostracized the way the blacks did, or the way some others do today.

I've felt ostracized my entire life. However, I don't do "victim". I have learned how to not poke people who make the decisions. It works surprisingly well.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')id you ever see Harper Valley PTA, it was famous song that became a movie with Barbara Eden playing the mom who got discriminated against because she was non-conformist.

The "rage against the system" thing at the end... doesn't usually work out so well for the non-conformist in real life.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')n the art thing again, what if it went beyond just not liking your purple hair and they started telling you what was art and what was'nt art.
Its their opinion, and they're entitled to it. Is it supposed to matter to me if Joe Schmoe thinks Gesualdo Polyphony isn't art?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd if you liked the kind they said was not art then it started to be hard to find a job, hard to even find a friendly face?

So smile, verbally agree with his point of view and take the job. As long as you don't poke him with your minority point of view, he isn't going to give a rats behind what you hang on your wall or play on your headphones.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')There are people all over America today feeling that everyday for one reason or another. In one area it might be an overzealous Bishop thundering about unwed mothers from the pulpit (non-catholic undwed mothers mind you.) In another area it might be a flashy megachurch leader talking about the evil homosexuals in our college faculties. Or it could be some grant assessor who does'nt think that young earth Christians can write science papers, or those who don't support abortion should'nt get government money. It's all the same thing, ugly.

Its always been so. Its certainly ugly of course, but its human.

On the specifics...
1&2 speach police again I see. I think people ought to be able to thunder and talk about anything they want. If thats horrible unwed mothers, or vile sodomites, so what. Speach is speach, like it or not.

3 is certainly already the case, but most scienitifc Christians are content enough not to poke the grant assessor with "young earth"iness; and the grant assessor, being a typical unpoked human, doesn't hook them up to a polygraph to determine their allegiance to a multibillion year age for the earth.

4 is not much different than 3.

Basic sense. Don't poke decision makers, if you want them to decide in your favor.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's time for the culture wars to stop.
Don't think so. We're just getting started, and the religious folks have a very, very long list of scores that are in need of settling. I just think back to the late sixties and early seventies, as the left had the opportunity and lust to really beat up on religious groups and practice. An eye for an eye is as ancient as civilization, and every bit as strong today as it was long ago.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his is a crucial battle, if we cannot win it, we cannot survive as a homogeneous nation.

I think it was acknowledged as unwinnable a while back with the appelation of "Jesusland" applied with scorn and derision upon those that vote Republican in the heartland. Problem is, someone out there had a stupid attack and failed to do the math on electoral votes and senate seats.

I, personally, have never suggested that the US can survive as a homogenous nation, and to not put too fine a point on it, I think it died as a homogenous nation a couple decades ago; 2000 & 2004 simply gave expression to that result. Where we go from here, I dunno.

In the end though, I'd be careful on the homogeny side, a very large portion of the military (both officers and enlisted) hail from Jesusland. Don't force them to pick a side.
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby DesertBear2 » Wed 18 Oct 2006, 03:39:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '
')Don't think so. We're just getting started, and the religious folks have a very, very long list of scores that are in need of settling. I just think back to the late sixties and early seventies, as the left had the opportunity and lust to really beat up on religious groups and practice. An eye for an eye is as ancient as civilization, and every bit as strong today as it was long ago.



This sounds like talk radio right wing propaganda.

The so-called "left" has never had much power in the US. The great "left wing oppression" is just a vehicle of the phoney conservative politics now current in the US.

The so-called "beating up" on religion never happened during this period. Most of the major religions underwent an internal review of traditional dogma- many experimented with a general liberalization of philosophy and services. Part of this was the idea of drawing in new devotees. Even the Mormons went through a liberalization phase for a few years.

The traditional religious folks of that period may have felt that they were being beaten up. But the reality of it was that they were just being ignored by young people who were experimenting with sexual liberation, womens lib, drug use, and progressive politics that questioned so-called traditional values. The religious leaders felt that they were being ignored and sidelined and were not comfortable with that feeling. These leaders have since launched major efforts to regain tight control of their flocks.

Religion is ultimately about crowd control and will assert itself in any manner necessary to achieve that goal.

It is my feeling that the religious right is going to over reach and will become intensely unpopular in the coming years. This is already apparent with popular political sentiment running strongly against the GOP - even with all the "god and family values" talk that the Republicans are constantly spewing out.
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby PolestaR » Wed 18 Oct 2006, 05:26:59

That's funny, rwwff is basically admitting he's only catholic because everyone else is and thats the way to promote his career/life/etc. He doesn't out and out say this probably because someone who visits this forum knows who he is and is catholic too.. but the secret is out now. I look forward to your replies stating how devout you REALLY ARE AND WE MUST BELIEVE YOU.

I have an alternative to doing what the "majority" is doing if what they are doing is discriminating. It's called getting rid of them. By force if necessary. There is no need to be tolerant to intolerance.
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby PolestaR » Wed 18 Oct 2006, 05:29:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DesertBear2', 'T')his sounds like talk radio right wing propaganda.
...snip....


Wouldn't it be better if christianity didn't promote spreading the word... but promoted self journeys to find the truth of god as they lay it out? You know why this doesn't happen? Well.. I think anyone with an IQ over 101 understands why.... *coughitsisillogicalneedpropagandaforpeopletojoinourcultscough*.
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby AgentR » Wed 18 Oct 2006, 16:58:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PolestaR', 'T')hat's funny, rwwff is basically admitting he's only catholic because everyone else is and thats the way to promote his career/life/etc. He doesn't out and out say this probably because someone who visits this forum knows who he is and is catholic too.. but the secret is out now.


You need to read more carefully. The conclusion you draw would be potentially valid if this were a majority Catholic area, but its not. But even if it were, the logic you are using isn't valid.

From JoeUnusual's perspective, one could join a Church for the sole purpose of extending social networks. However, that does not imply that if JoeUnusual is a member of a Church, that he is doing it for the sole purpose of social networking. Its a classic demonstration of how (a point in A is contained in B) does not imply (a point in B is contained in A).

In any event, its not particularly relevant in my case since I couldn't form a social network if my life depended on it, Church or no Church.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') look forward to your replies stating how devout you REALLY ARE AND WE MUST BELIEVE YOU.


You *must* do no such thing. Whether you believe or not is of no consequence.
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby AgentR » Wed 18 Oct 2006, 17:07:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DesertBear2', 'T')his sounds like talk radio right wing propaganda.


I'll have to take your word for it, I listen to very little radio.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he so-called "beating up" on religion never happened during this period.


Not really important whether it actually happened, to those I am refering to, and to those EJ is dealing with, they believe it happened.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t is my feeling that the religious right is going to over reach and will become intensely unpopular in the coming years. This is already apparent with popular political sentiment running strongly against the GOP - even with all the "god and family values" talk that the Republicans are constantly spewing out.


Strong sentiment against the GOP is mostly about Iraq, coupled with a sequence of scandals and stupidity. Considering that its very nearly a perfect storm against the GOP, and the best the Dem's can do is a likely razor thin majority in the Senate, and a modest margin in the house; that doesn't look like "intensely unpopular". If the Dem's bag a 50 seat margin in the House, and 60/40 margin in the Senate, then we can consider "intensely unpopular".
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby TITAN » Wed 18 Oct 2006, 19:51:23

So, what I get from some of this discussion is that, if TSHTF, I should:

1. keep my guns well oiled and sighted in.
2. ask newcomers if they are religious.
3. kill them dead if they are. Any children they bring will receive a humane attempt at de-programming...
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby AgentR » Wed 18 Oct 2006, 19:57:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TITAN', '1'). keep my guns well oiled and sighted in.
2. ask newcomers if they are religious.
3. kill them dead if they are. Any children they bring will receive a humane attempt at de-programming...


I would not be surprised to see this play out a lot like Iraq is now, with non-religioius communities excluding or killing religious people, and religious communities excluding or killing non-religious people.
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Re: pro-Catholic Bigotry

Unread postby PolestaR » Wed 18 Oct 2006, 21:09:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TITAN', 'S')o, what I get from some of this discussion is that, if TSHTF, I should:

1. keep my guns well oiled and sighted in.
2. ask newcomers if they are religious.
3. kill them dead if they are. Any children they bring will receive a humane attempt at de-programming...


Keep their kids for your breeding stock ... that is when they come of age if they haven't already. To make this gel well... separate the kids and adults in the party and come up with a story that their parents are going to "someplace" for "somereason". Of course once both parties are out of sight kill the adults and the kids will never know.. they'll just think their parents abandoned them. As you can see.. I haven't been thinking much about this at all... .heh heh.. heh.

Religious people especially christians are going to be fodder post shtf because it is in their bible to share, even with non believers. If they don't then it's just another thing on their record for judgement day. There is only one reason to be a christian if it's real.. and that is the afterlife it promises. The christians know this, they know the bible gives them nothing (outside the obvious like a social network and all that encompasses) in this world which is why they need to have faith.

One thing which makes me wonder about christians is.... do they have faith? I mean so many people I talk to tell me with 100% assurance that he (god) exists, they know because he answers their prayers,, miracles, etc. If they KNOW he exists where is the faith involved?
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